Episode 58, the final instalment in the Big Bite Mini Series, brings us a conversation with the Cocktail Whisperer himself, Warren Bobrow, author of Cannabis Cocktails, Mocktails & Tonics. With a nod to his regular Forbes column, where Warren interviews all manner of hardworking characters in the cannabis industry, the 5 Thirsty Questions will help you create better craft cocktails and mocktails at home like a professional! Definitely some amazing takeaways in this one!
Here are the links to things mentioned in this episode (Amazon links are affiliate please and thank you!):
- Warren Bobrow’s Cocktail Whisperer website
- Warren’s Forbes articles
- Cannabis Cocktail, Mocktails & Tonics on Amazon
- Warren’s other books on Amazon
- find Warren on Instagram @warrenbobrow
- find Klaus Apothicare on Instagram @klaus_apothicaire
- learn more about Agricole Rhum
That’s it for this week friends, until next time, stay high!
Marge Madden 0:07
And we're alive so welcome Warren to the bite me podcast. I'm really glad you took some time out of your busy day to be with me here today. And
Warren Bobrow 0:20
on a Friday we'll do a recording and it's talking about the stuff that I'm working on.
Marge Madden 0:25
Yeah of course and the thing stuff that you're working on of course is always cocktails and more recently cannabis cocktails you've been getting into. And of course, the audience of whitening podcasts are all cannabis enthusiasts, in particular, edibles, and we've been discussing on the podcast last few weeks, some of the recipes from your book and I love your book cannabis cocktails mocktails and tonics, I think it's fantastic. and everybody should be buying this book. And you have a very unique take on all this stuff because you've been involved in the craft cocktail industry for such a long time. So I have a five thirsty questions for you Oren today if you're ready. Alright, so first of all, what is your favorite infusion to make when it comes to cannabis cocktails in particular and what one do you feel is most often overlooked.
Warren Bobrow 1:26
exactly how much sweetness or how much
potency, the drink contains, and I shouldn't say that this is not a new thing. The use of alcohol and cannabis goes back to, probably the mid 1800s during the time of the early apothecary prior to electricity and refrigeration so alcohol and cannabis together acted as a preservative, not as a, as a crossfade. So, I do want to make that clear that I'm not, I'm definitely not the first person to do this, and I wrote my book in 2015. So, this isn't a just have. So,
Marge Madden 2:06
all right. I'm glad you know that about the crossfade to just because there's always these caveats about mixing cannabis and alcohol and how you have to be pretty careful with it
Warren Bobrow 2:26
when describing people who drink too much on a daily basis and it's called common sense.
Marge Madden 2:34
Yeah, that common sense thing is that, yeah, that's pretty good. Do you feel like there isn't a few infusion that's too often overlooked when it comes to making cannabis cocktails or do you feel like the rich simple syrup just sort of covers most of the bases,
Warren Bobrow 3:01
balance, and sweet and you can decide what flavor, you want to put into. Or, you can make it a any sort of infusion with, you know, the terpene, the natural terpenes from the cannabis add something to it. And there's also what I think, much more importantly, is you can make it dark you can make it light change up your entire cocktail repertoire by the type of simple syrup, that you're using and it really is very adaptable. I'm not saying make the drink sweet but it adds a touch of sweetness that becomes much more tangible
Marge Madden 3:33
right that makes it more palatable if you will, and I haven't had a chance to make it yet but you do have in the book, The simple syrup but you add ginger to it which I think is really nice and I'm going to be trying that one soon too because I love ginger so. So that's definitely I've found that definitely to be true what you're talking about, because I did make a herb simple syrup for the French herb scented Vishy water and that was lovely so everything you're saying totally makes sense. Do you have. Sorry, go ahead. Yes.
Warren Bobrow 4:12
I would say much more advanced than the United States, where you are because it's just much more sophisticated so if you show up to a mixology party and you have a container of a few simple. I'm sure someone will know what to do with it.
Marge Madden 4:26
That's, that's a really great to know I didn't know that about the Canadian cocktail industry but that's very interesting.
Warren Bobrow 4:33
I've come across her from either Vancouver or Toronto but the fact is you have a very cosmopolitan attitude towards cocktails it's not necessarily sweet forward it's more savory for. Right. And,
Marge Madden 4:51
yeah, I'm a fan of the savory too for sure. And what kitchen gadget tool widget or ingredient any one of these things. Do you feel is essential to making great cocktails at home,
Warren Bobrow 5:05
ingredients that money combined. I always say don't skimp, and if you are using juices don't use concentrated juices always use fresh squeezed. You should be making your own ice. When I make my ice I do it in a, in one of those plastic freezer bags. My ice doesn't smell like the last week's garlic pasta which is up in the refrigerator that I forgot about it suddenly. Smells like garlic. I use good tools. The currycomb shakers are the ones that I choose to use because they're weighted, they make, they make my job a lot easier when I'm mixing when I'm shaking up a cocktail. I but I think most importantly you don't want to use any spirits that have Carmel coloring or flavorings added, because there's there's heating involved, and those certain cocktail ingredients may not be meant to be heated and other bad things may happen if you keep a Carvel colored rum it's going to turn into some black sludge and it's probably not so healthy for you
Marge Madden 6:14
right now. Well that makes a lot of sense because I feel like with most cooking anytime you can buy the best ingredients you can. It's obviously usually preferable. But it's interesting that you note about making your own ice because that's something I feel is really easy for someone at home to replicate if you can make your own ice. It's not a difficult thing to do. So that's, that's fantastic and. Who would have thought making your own ice can make such a big difference but again having made that herb scented fishy water I made the lemon ice, the lemon zest ice and that was, was really nice. I think it was for that one but yeah so that's,
Warren Bobrow 6:58
I really wasn't familiar with the process of doing the, the ice pause for a second yes it was okay. I'm on a live recording I'm sorry, talking to my wife. It was a lemon zest and it has a little bit of lemon oil and I think there were some fresh herbs in there and it was just really tasty and it was something that was different.
Marge Madden 7:24
Yeah, I agree.
Warren Bobrow 7:28
As a former chef I like to test the culinary limitations of my understanding,
Marge Madden 7:35
well it's nice to hear you say that because I feel like sometimes home chefs are a little bit too shy to play around with some of this stuff but ice is such an easy way to sort of open up some whole new worlds as far as making cannabis cocktails or just cocktails in general so that's great
Warren Bobrow 7:50
recipes that I have is actually the easiest you take a can of coconut water, and you freeze it in an ice cube tray and then mix it into a rum cocktail it doesn't necessarily have that kind of a Senate, but when it's when the, the ice is melting it changes the complexity of the craft drink in your hand right and
Marge Madden 8:07
i was gonna note that too like because how easy is it just to get coconut water and just freeze it, I mean that's such a simple little trick but yeah that's right. Yeah.
Warren Bobrow 8:25
dimensional and they have different levels of tastes and balance and they bitter and bitter so they use extensively.
Marge Madden 8:36
Your, so your favorite beverage in the cannabis cocktails book what and if you have one I'm assuming you must at this point. And is there anything special in particular about it a memory attached to it that gives it this regard, high regard
Warren Bobrow 9:01
is, it's a licensed faction by this by the French government if you will be marked being a French protectorate, they, their ROMs are, are subscribed under this epileps john original control it so you know it's the good stuff, you know it's well made, you know, there aren't any dicey ingredients in there and you know that that it's going to be different than molasses faced from, essentially, a recall is made from freshly crushed sugarcane juice, as opposed to highly toxic molasses,
Marge Madden 9:34
and I had no idea that was even involved in the rum manufacturing, they often use molasses, I didn't know that.
And can you repeat the name of that rum, again,
Warren Bobrow 9:55
Marge Madden 9:57
Warren Bobrow 9:59
as opposed to
the French pronunciation right.
Marge Madden 10:04
Okay, very good. I will look that up and include that in the show notes for anybody who's looking for something. Sounds like it's exquisite honestly. Yeah. Right. burgundy to wine furiously writing notes here as you speak Warren so you have to bear with me sometimes. But in your book cannabis cocktails Do you have a favorite and there, of all the while doesn't have to be the cocktail it could be
Warren Bobrow 10:47
any supermarket or convenience store in the world and they probably have a can of condensed milk on the shelf. I if you're doing, you know, the small Can I think it's approximately, maybe, I don't know, half hour I don't know, it's probably copper a half cup and you add the cannabis right to it. And then what you do after that is you heat it slowly. About 140 to 160 degrees, no more and a double boiler. You can leave the cannon tacky or you just opened it up for the cannabis and in
the cannabis has been carved already that means
activated by heat. That's another just another technique that's in the book and it makes the cannabis. It turns to the cannabis for THC a to THC, but they get the decarb cannabis will go into like a little. I use cheesecloth pouch and then I put it into the little can of condensed milk and a double boiler and slowly, gently simmer at no more than 160 degrees for two hours. And then you let it cool, take out that little package of the cannabis, and then you can use that connect smell in any sort of drinks that you like or even desserts, you can make adulterate election cake, if you like, you know, wait two ingredients connects milk iced coffee or the connects over the iced coffee and a glass with some good ice. And there you have it.
Marge Madden 12:33
And it's funny you mention that because that is one of the recipes that I first bookmarked in your book which I'm looking at right now and I haven't tried this one yet cuz I have to go to condense milk I found in my cupboard is long overdue. So I'm probably not going to use that. But how fantastic is it that you can just do it right in the Can I never would have thought to do that,
Warren Bobrow 12:55
always heard that they condensed milk because it's usually just in the can and if you want to do anything with it you just leave it at the cat.
Marge Madden 13:02
Well, that's fantastic and I'm looking at the recipe too and you have the coconut water ice cubes for that which I think would be really nice as well just as a, as an additional flavor additive as it as the ice melts like you mentioned earlier so that's wonderful. I will definitely be trying this recipe out very soon. Yes. Yes, exactly. Now, for people who are wanting to sort of dabble into serving cannabis cocktails or mocktails at a gathering. And I know people are having too many parties these days but we will be again. But if you're wanting to serve cannabis infused drinks, do you have any advice to serving to guests to make sure that nobody overindulges
Warren Bobrow 13:50
like Thai food when you have a, you know, when you're eating Thai food for the first time you probably wouldn't have served Thai spicy five star always had for you can't take it away once you take in it, and no one wants that bad experience now if you have that bad experience, you'll know what I'm talking about this if you've ever had edibles and you've eaten too much. And remember that horrible feeling of, you know, spinning and vomiting or whatever else. So what I recommend is keep some lemons around so you can suck on some lemons because the terpenes in the lemons counteract most of the ones in cannabis, that also Sue peppercorn so she wanted peppercorns, the. There's another term and I forget the name of it but it's a pepper and it's in most cannabis strains, so it counteracts.
Marge Madden 14:37
Okay that's good to know especially because I've heard these, these two tricks with the, the lemon and the peppercorns before but fortunately I've never been in a position where I've had to try it. It's been a long time since I've overdone it on on edibles but it's always good to hear from somebody who might have some experience with that to say yes, it actually works so if you're listening to this and that's ever happened to you, lemons and peppercorns two things that most people have in their cupboards or their fridge at some point. So, so use less when you're serving to guess which is, I think, obviously. Yeah.
Warren Bobrow 15:12
Remember that one bad experience I don't want to be the one that provided it
Marge Madden 15:16
right yeah you want them to want to come back to your place to enjoy your company not stay away. Yeah.
Warren Bobrow 15:28
They asked me to make a CBD cocktail cocktail, that they could feel, and of course anyone knows and if they don't let me be the first to tell you that if you make a CBD mocktail or even a cocktail. The alcohol negates the CBD. That's the first thing. The second thing is you're not going to feel anything. And if you do, please tell me because I want to take that CBD. So what I did is I unleashed what we call the entourage effect and I gave them 50% THC with 50% CBD like they asked, and I destroyed them on my feet.
Marge Madden 16:08
And how did that go over. Now I can imagine it's such an uncomfortable feeling when you've had too much THC but then to add the pressure of being on television live TV maybe I can see how that might not have gone over to good and it's interesting you mentioned I didn't realize that this that CBD was negated by alcohol.
Warren Bobrow 16:32
You have to use a lot of it anyway for it to do anything. Right.
You know the little tincture bottles that are
there one fluid ounce some of them cost as much as 8090 $100 for a little bottle. Now, Literally to get the most out of that, that would do anything in the presence of alcohol, you have to use the entire bottle.
Marge Madden 16:54
Warren Bobrow 17:02
So you never have to worry about it but it's going to be that simple as you would go in like out in California, they used to do this I don't think it's legal anymore but they would put a couple drops of CBD on top of a craft cocktail and end up charging 14 or 15 bucks for those three
Marge Madden 17:18
drops right which is
Warren Bobrow 17:21
crazy. I want to take the bartender by the neck and say, listen to me. Taking advantage of your customer and your guests anyway by serving lousy ice. Now you're charging them, you know, a 15 or $20 upcharge for for a couple drops of CBD that no one knows really where it's from anyway.
Marge Madden 17:44
Right, that's another good point too because CBD has become so popular that it seems like you can buy it everywhere now and you probably shouldn't. But, yeah,
Warren Bobrow 18:01
CBD sold in the gas station. So, don't call me. Right.
Marge Madden 18:07
Yeah, but that's very interesting to know because, you know, I guess it just means if you're going to be using their CBD in your beverages just leave out the alcohol and make it a mocktail.
Warren Bobrow 18:19
Just leave out the CBD,
Marge Madden 18:21
all together in a beverage. Okay, okay cuz I was gonna ask if you could swap out, likes, using CBD flour for some of the infusions in your book instead of THC but you feel that there's really no,
Warren Bobrow 18:37
I can't tell you what.
I'm sure nothing will happen.
I just don't. I think it's snake oil.
Oil and. How dare I say but I have glaucoma. Cannabis program here in New Jersey. And what that is done is, is allows me to smoke strains that are higher in CBD but lower in THC, but pure CBD strains from him do absolutely nothing at all right
Marge Madden 19:18
so you really you really do need the THC for that entourage effect like you mentioned earlier.
Warren Bobrow 19:31
not a doctor. I don't even play one on television, but I know what works for me.
What might work for you.
But I can tell you, If you're putting CBD in a craft cocktail or mocktail you're just wasting your money.
Marge Madden 19:51
Right. Well that's good to know. I mean, it just means the listeners out there if you're hearing this. No, you might as well make it an infused cocktail enjoy and you're gonna feel something anyway so there you have it. Yeah,
Warren Bobrow 20:07
well being, I guess.
Marge Madden 20:10
Warren Bobrow 20:14
national brand ambassador for a boutique rum company. My job was to get people obliterated binge drinking, and that's the that's the recommendation the image that they're trying to portray that drinking is not something you do in moderation drinking is something you do get drunk.
Marge Madden 20:34
By comparison, absolutely nothing is probably preferable if you're looking at it from a health perspective too so yeah you're definitely preaching to the converted over here. Yeah. Now, finally, Warren, you have close, apothic hair, and I would love to hear a little bit more about that and what's happening with that.
Warren Bobrow 21:01
Craft Bobtail no alcohol will be sold in California were illegal to do this type of thing. There will be 10 milligrams of live resin, which is the most concentrated form concentrate, that's available for the drinks within the food industry as well, is based on a recipe that I derived from my book cannabis cocktail cocktails and tonics. It's called the mezcal cocktail It's named after Miss mesereau, Louis Armstrong's weed dealer during the jazz era. He brought Mexican cannabis up from, of course, Mexico and sold tons of it in Chicago, and in New York City, got a lot of people's attention, and really fueled the jazz era, so that's why I wanted to pay homage to mess by naming a drink after him. And it's one of my three skills.
Marge Madden 21:57
Well I'm excited to see that come out is it just gonna be out in California when it initially is released.
Warren Bobrow 22:13
4200, but I have to give away half of those to influencers,
Marge Madden 22:17
right. Yes, of course. Yeah, well that's very exciting and when do you think this is gonna be hitting the shelves I do have listeners in California. So,
Warren Bobrow 22:31
last year, it was a scientist for almost six months while I got all the formulas developed for making drinks for two people it's making drinks for 2200 people and everything has to be balanced. I had to get in touch with all the different manufacturers, all the different ingredients manufacturers, many of these people don't have you know keep in stock. Eight or 900 gallons of their product. They make for bartenders and right now. No one's really buying very much of their products so they're keeping things around the obstacle is the aluminum cans there is a shortage of certain types of aluminum cans and the one that I'm using, there's a shortage of so I have to buy a very large number for much more than I had anticipated buying in the beginning, but that's in any business you always have things happen that you don't anticipate, this is one of them.
Marge Madden 23:31
Yeah, of course. And on top of all that you're dealing with, with a global pandemic as well so I'm sure all the hard work you've been putting in is going to come to fruition in November, which is really exciting I believe I've seen pictures of the cans possibly online and they look, they look like they're a lot of fun. Yeah,
Warren Bobrow 23:57
all the important stuff that goes into this product. He is the one who created. My job as CEO is to kind of be the ripening of the cow wrestler I've got to wrangle all the parts and put it all together and I wish I was better at that but I'm learning
Marge Madden 24:14
right now and that's no small task, I'm sure, especially in our craft cocktail cannabis environment which is still pretty new and a lot of places to write so
Warren Bobrow 24:33
it's not a drink that doesn't challenge you intellectually.
The bulk of our show, and I taught a masterclass on rum. And what I learned by that is there was a young Vietnamese guy who was in the class, and he and I went out for some drinks and he was telling me about his secrets you know the type of ingredients that he uses in his craft cocktails, that he creates, so I got. And I was just blown away by the range of flavors from ingredients that everyone has on their shelf, but no one ever thinks about using an a craft cocktail, and one of them was rice wine vinegar. And that's one of my secret ingredients
adds acidity, but it also gives you a great balance depth in your craft cocktail.
Marge Madden 25:23
Well that's very interesting, that's something that to listeners if you're hearing this rice wine vinegar, you probably have some in your cupboard somewhere I know I do, I have some so I'll have to play around with that a little bit as well. So.
Right, right. Okay, that's great to know So is there anything else that you want you feel compelled to share with us about making craft cocktails, specifically infused with cannabis, of course.
Warren Bobrow 25:57
So if you get into trouble. But if you do, someone who's, you know, as we say we used to take a lot of mushrooms you say it's always nice to have a guide around this it's nice to have a guide around just to keep an eye on
Marge Madden 26:10
you know what that is definitely great advice and more and I just want to thank you for being on the show today I really appreciate it and everyone listening I'm gonna have links to the cocktail whisperer and his articles on Forbes and everything else you can find out more about Warren and check out his book, and some of his many other books as well. And I hope you have a wonderful day one. Talk soon. Excellent. Thank you. All right, so I really appreciate that warm that was wonderful I'm super excited. And that'll probably be out in a couple of weeks. And I will certainly tag you in that when I post online about it and I'm excited to be trying more of the drinks from your book too I'm definitely putting the Vietnamese coffee higher up on my list for sure because I have so many of them bookmarked right now.
But I have one question I do have about that it calls for Vietnamese style chicory coffee, and
Warren Bobrow 27:23
it's available all over the world.
Marge Madden 27:25
Okay, so I just have to look for that can you use regular coffee with it or would I have much
Warren Bobrow 27:35
coffee is chicory and chicory was, was a ingredient that was used when people couldn't afford coffee because it. It resembles coffee but it's not coffee, it's chicory okay so they bring into coffee to extend it because places like New Orleans, and in Vietnam, of course, you know coffee is a luxury item, not everyone can afford it, but if you add a little chicory to your coffee and extensive and it adds a slight nuttiness to
Marge Madden 28:02
interesting okay I'm really tired about trying that because I know that
Unknown Speaker 28:05
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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