The Incredible Story of the Nectarball Documentary with Patty Mooney & Mark Schulze

(0:00:00) What happens when you take a love of food, a passion for culture, and a deep knowledge of cannabis and you toss them all into one bowl? You get Bite Me, the podcast that explores the intersection of food, culture, and cannabis and helps cooks make great edibles at home. I'm your host, a certified gangier, TCI certified cannabis educator, and I believe your kitchen is the best dispensary you'll ever have.

(0:00:27) And together we'll explore stories and science and the sheer joy of making safe, effective, and unforgettable edibles at home. So preheat your oven and get ready today for a great episode. For episode 324, I had the opportunity to sit down with filmmakers Patty Mooney and Mark Schulze.

(0:00:47) Now, these two have been in the filmmaking space for a very long time, and they have also been advocating for cannabis for just as long. And they made a documentary called Nectarball, which is our focus today, this film that they've put together

(0:01:02) based on the idea of living a high quality life. And it all started at the Emerald Cup. And throughout the years, they had the opportunity to interview all kinds of cannabis OGs and luminaries, the names that we know and trust in the cannabis space.

(0:01:18) This documentary was a labor of love. It took them several years and a whole pile of money to put together, and they're here today to talk about that process, share their story, and some of the things that they learned along the way. So without further ado, please enjoy this conversation with Patty and Mark.

(0:01:36) Yeah, so we're actually we're live now and I am joined today by Patty and Mark, who are the filmmakers behind Nectarball. And I'm really excited to have you both here today to tell the listeners of Bite Me a little bit more about yourselves in this documentary that you took seven years to produce. And maybe you can just start out by introducing yourself to the listeners of Bite Me and tell us a little bit about your own cannabis journey. What brought you to doing this documentary in the first place?

(0:02:05) Pat, you want to start? Ladies first. Oh, my. I'm Patty Mooney, and I'm a co-producer and editor of Nectar Ball, the story of cannabis, along with a few other cannabis-related films. And while cannabis isn't our only focus, we've been producing films since 1982 together via our company, Crystal Pyramid Productions.

(0:02:29) and our other company that distributed our tapes at the time, VHS tapes, new and unique videos. And how the idea came for Cannabis, the Cannabis, Nectarball, the Story of Cannabis film, I'll leave that to Mark. Hi, I'm Mark Schulze, producer and director of photography. I did the filming around the world for Nectarball, the Story of Cannabis. This is the DVD.

(0:02:59) And we did interviews with Tommy Chong and John Salley and Dr. Raphael Mechoulam before he passed away and Nurse Heather and Ed Rosenthal, you name it, Keiko Beatie. Just great people from all over the world, South Africa, South America.

(0:03:20) Of course, the Emerald Cup was kind of where we got our started. In 2016, I went up there, Tim Blake's little Emerald Cup up at Santa Rosa, and went to the history section. I gravitated there. Met a lot of OG cannabis, you know, affectionados, connoisseurs, growers like myself. And I started back when I was a kid, like 15 years old when I first started to try pot.

(0:03:49) And got my first little bud that I got from my aunt in 1972 before I even smoked it. I didn't really even smoke until 74. Pot and growing it back in 74.

(0:04:06) Anyway, in 2016, I went to the Emerald Cup and met all these wonderful people and told them about my collection of old buds, the Nectarball collection, and they said, wow, that's amazing. I've never heard of anybody that's got that. And so I did a little filming then in 2016.

(0:04:26) And then told Patty, we got to go back in 2017 and bring our green screen and our bigger professional equipment, big professional equipment we use for Crystal Pyramid to do our corporate clients' videos. And we said, let's take this up there, big green screen, lighting, sound, everything.

(0:04:46) interview all these illuminaries out there because there's these fantastic people. I said, they're all gathered together at one place. So Tim Blake gave us a little room in the back and we set everything up and made it as soundproof as we could and just started pulling people in from, you know, Swami Select and his wife and growers from the Humboldt Five. And Patty can tell you all these people because she ended up having to transcribe 165 interviews over six years of traveling the world.

(0:05:17) getting all these interviews. And so we just started in 2017 filming for it and then went all the way until about 2000.

(0:05:24) 23, she was editing. We still gathered a few interviews and things like Amsterdam. And so we were from Europe, South America. The last place we did was South Africa, Cape Town area, Namibia, all these places. And they had some legalized dispensary type social clubs too. So all that put together and it was wonderful people. We do no narration. Patty took all those transcripts and spent

(0:05:52) about a year and a half editing this after she got the pearls of about 65 with 165. So we did all the, another thing with people that didn't make the cut, Patty edited up a bunch of what we call Cannaminutes. We put that on citizen green TV, citizen green dot TV, Steve Peterson and those people. So they've got the can of minutes along with, uh, you can see it also red coral universe.com. Of course our website, nectar ball.com. And, uh,

(0:06:21) that's kind of how we started and got into the movie and then we made a short 10 minute one called fighting cancer with cannabis that one we put in san francisco festival and then put that out um on a few a few shows people i'm not buying that's only 10 minutes so it wasn't really you know it's not like something amazon prime wanted whereas they wanted negative all the story of cannabis which is an 83 or 82 minute documentary

(0:06:47) And again, we don't do narration. We let the experts and the pros and the nurses and the scientists and the growers and all the other OG people talk and tell us. And then we did an offshoot of 12 Black Cannabis Visionaries with John Sally. And we did a few more interviews at MJBizCon where we just released that one. That was 2025, however,

(0:07:16) We took that down off of many sites other than Red Coral Universe because there's only 38 minutes because we wanted to make a 60 minute version because it would be easier to distribute worldwide that way, 60 minutes. So we have to get some more footage. So that'll probably be coming out in 2026 or re-released as a longer version. And that's pretty much our journey of cannabis-centric documentaries and, as Pat would say, films.

(0:07:46) even though nobody shoots film anymore. But our background is in educational and documentaries shows that we used to release in VHS starting in 1985 with Common Sense Self-Defense for Women and Pat's Massage for Relaxation video. And then we did one called California Big Hunks, which is a crazy fun one that was like before Chippendales.

(0:08:13) No nudity, but sexy stripper guys, California Big Hunks stripped down. That's also out there in the market. If you look for California Big Hunks, that was a fun one in 85. And a few others we did. And then a bunch of mountain biking videos. The ultimate mountain biking video. Before that, the great mountain biking video.

(0:08:35) And then Full Cycle World Odyssey, we went around the world on our mountain bikes, kind of like Endless Summer on mountain bikes. And that one just got picked up by a bunch of places, too, including Amazon Prime. So, you know, doing okay. But, you know, you don't make a documentary, by the way, as Patty will tell you, too, to make any money. We probably put in a quarter of a million.

(0:08:58) at making the film, and we've probably seen a few hundred dollars so far. But we really want it to be seen by people, so hopefully your viewers will check it out, because as you can attest, seeing it yourself, how good a documentary it is and how it can help the world be a better place with cannabis in it.

(0:09:17) I did have the opportunity to watch the film myself and it was great and it sounds like it took you all over the world while you're producing this documentary and as you mentioned already, seven years it took to put this movie out. Were there any big misconceptions that you had going into the project that completely changed by the end? One of the things that struck me was just a quote by a

(0:09:46) cultivator named Matt Gress, that he had gone into the CanMed and seen a presenter who said, you can eat

(0:10:00) the herb that's in a plastic baggie in your pocket right now and get benefits just from eating the plant. And another grower, Sunshine Cereceda, said one of the most amazing things you could do is juice it. And so the plant itself, as you know, you have your focus on edibles.

(0:10:27) contains so many cannabinoids in its raw state. So we always thought it had to be fired up. No, the whole plant and the male plant has benefits too. I mean, this plant is meant for us.

(0:10:47) That is pretty interesting that you mentioned that because people really don't talk about consuming THCA or CBDA, which is, or the other plant compounds before they're decarboxylized. We're always setting it on fire or baking it in the oven. So that's pretty interesting. A good thing to point out because I, I'm growing some plants right now and I've decided I'm going to try some juicing of those leaves once I harvest and stuff. So that is, that is very insightful. Now you two have been together.

(0:11:17) Yeah. Yeah. You two have been together for 43 years and you describe yourselves as experts in high quality living. How did creating this documentary shift your personal relationship with cannabis? Good question. I, I, I'd say I'd start now, Pat, you jump in anytime. Um, I, I mean, I always say like love is all there is. I mean, period, just, you know, you're on this planet for a short period of time.

(0:11:43) And like in the movie, The Notebook, you know, if you put yourself in the right place and you meet the love of your life. In my case, I made my wish on my little crystal and I go, hey.

(0:11:53) You know, I want to meet my soulmate on before Valentine's Day, nine months before, and then all of a sudden, poof. You know, on Valentine's Day, I'm filming for the World Hunger Project at a little theater called the La Paloma here in Encinitas, near San Diego. And there she was, one of the actors, singers. And I fell madly in love. Just on sight, they say, you see someone. But I didn't want her to freak her out and say something like that. So I invited her out to dinner, and we...

(0:12:22) you know, hung out, and she had a bunch of boyfriends, but we ended up being together since, like, Valentine's Day in 1982. So love is there, and that's the most important thing. And then teaming up to do things afterwards to decide, like, well, what do you want to do? And high-quality life is trying to live every day. I mean, like, almost like if it's, you could be your last. I mean, none of us know you get hit by a lightning or a meteor, but not likely. So if you're going to live, you might as well make every day count.

(0:12:52) and you know eat right exercise have fun go out in nature a lot those are all things that we do to live a high quality life like later today we're going to be on a mountain bike ride with a few friends nearby here and just you know get out back out in nature we try to go out in nature at least twice a week if not if you count our backyard which is on a over a canyon then

(0:13:14) We are in nature every day. I go out gardening like you, got my little plants and just try to, you know, it's such a beautiful plant and that's,

(0:13:24) The first one I grew when I was a little kid, I didn't want to kill. And that's how I found out they would turn into buds. It happened to be a female. I don't want to kill it. It just gets better and better, it seems. What is this sticky stuff? And that's where I came up with the name Nectar Ball. Because there's these little, they started turning little balls and they were sticky. And that's sticky. I go, what is that? It's turning, you know, THC resin capsules on the trichomes. I don't know those words. I read all the books I could get on cannabis after that. And then when I was going to school at UCSD and grew a huge crop out in the mountains,

(0:13:54) Then it got busted the second year because in San Diego, there's no place to hide your buds. I mean, this was a picture from 1979 of the buds. And as you can see in the background, there's no trees. This is kind of out of focus. I don't know if the camera should focus on this, but anyway.

(0:14:16) There it goes. In the background, you can't, you don't see it. It's all this mountains like this one. And that's me, you know, there in the mountains, there's no trees. You can't hide your pot. So we got busted. But anyway, right after that, I met Patty and we've been together since having a great time. Pat, you chime in anytime.

(0:14:39) we don't have kids by the way that's another it makes it easier for us our kids are plants i guess our films are our children it's our art form it's our way of giving back to the world leaving the world a better place with us in it as opposed to some of the stuff going on right nowadays with a lot of people so the high quality life for me is um it's a double entendre right high it's nice to be high because you're

(0:15:09) perspective of the world is kind of like you have a wider, higher perspective of it. And it's not, you're not like so diminished as to be depressed or lost. You're part of it. You're part of it all. So when we went into our mode of talking to people and learning while we were filming this project,

(0:15:37) We learned about how there are so many more delivery systems of the plant than just smoking it. You can eat it. You can spread it on your skin. You can take little drops, tinctures. So Mark started making some tinctures and balms because

(0:15:57) with our mountain biking career over the last, well, since 1986, we've been mountain biking together. You know, you get your aches and pains. It's an inherently very dangerous sport. You crash a couple of times here and there. You're working that jackhammer, going over rocks. So my shoulders are really worked. And so I use the balm on that. I take the tinctures every night. He makes the sleepy blend and helps me sleep through the night. No more insomnia.

(0:16:27) no more pain at night that keeps me awake. So it's, I mean, I hesitate to use the word miraculous, but like I said before, this plant is made for humans, the cannabinoids, the cannabinoid receptors we have in our bodies. That's another thing we learned about the endocannabinoid system that most doctors have no clue about because it can't be taught in medical school because it's been on this horrible list as a

(0:16:58) negative drug. Insane. Insane. Why would we chop off our own nose to spite our face? I mean, yeah. I made Pat, well, before I did the tinctures and whatnot, I'd make brownies, of course, everybody's a classic brownie mix and carboxylized pot and everything. And so she'd dig a little square because it's pretty powerful. She'd do it right with it, you know, and with the right amount in the oils and gave some to our friends and

(0:17:28) Everybody seems to love it. Like, you know, Margaret, you can obviously talk, and you do, about consuming edibles in a tasty way. I'm sure we can all learn from you, taste your ways to do it, too.

(0:17:44) Yeah, I love that you brought up the topicals as well, because I feel like any aging adult, and I put myself in this category, I mean, I don't know if I could survive the day without my topicals as well. So, you know, it's such a gentle and approachable way to get into cannabis.

(0:18:01) I maybe hesitate to use the word miraculous as well, because it doesn't necessarily help all the physical ailments that we have. But for those that find relief through topicals, it really is miraculous, honestly. So I'm really glad that you brought that up.

(0:18:16) The nectar bomb, we made some of that, and my soccer players love putting on their knees, those old soccer players over the 60s. These guys over the 40s are going, hey, man, this is great for my knees. Any of those knees and joints, topicals are pretty...

(0:18:35) a must have in anybody's arsenal of medical help. But now for the documentary, you interviewed, as you already mentioned, over 165 cannabis luminaries, but you were only able to feature about 52 in the final cut.

(0:18:51) so what kinds of stories or perspectives didn't make it in and why and now it does sound like when you were talking in the beginning mark that you are going to be releasing some of these interviews that didn't make it but was there anything in particular why they didn't make it into the original documentary i'm gonna let patty answer that but i will say before that that um because it was mainly her decision based on the transcripts and what the flow you know from history from the past to the present to the future you know and and wanting to make sure we gave

(0:19:20) a voice to everybody, including farmers, which have never gotten a voice in any other movies, per se, usually, that I know of, at least. And, you know, so we did all that. And also, if we can get funding, because it's all been self-funded, you know, from work that we've done for other people and groups and corporations, of which we took those profits and put them into making this movie. You know, it's a labor of love, passion project, as they're often called it.

(0:19:51) And we thought we could do a series. So there's, you know, we even did one. We've even got, Pat's got one, but we're having some problems with the legal

(0:20:00) legalities for ed rosenthal because he's got a great story obviously ed rosenthal versus the feds um and and and the 12 black cannabis visionaries and uh fighting cancer with cannabis so we could actually you know there's we have a we have ideas for like another 10 part series but we'd have to get money together to get that because we can't do it all by ourselves this next time we're getting too old and and it's a lot of work and it burns you out if you don't have a little help

(0:20:27) So, Patty, you go ahead now. You can answer that wonderful question about why are some people on the cutting room floor at this point? Well, just based on duplicate material. And so I would choose the person who had the most succinct and elegant way of saying it. If there were people who kind of om, om, om, om, that would quite make it.

(0:20:57) Then so basically that was it. And then I always had in mind that certain people spoke about certain things like their time in jail. And so I wanted to preserve that for a video on its own about the incarceration of people, farmers, the domestic terrorism that was imposed by our own government.

(0:21:27) helicopters dropping out of the sky, dropping people out of the sky to terrorize farmers. This is like, oh, your tomato plants, we're going to arrest you over to, because cannabis is like a tomato plant. The fact that we're not, that is still going on. People are still incarcerated over a plant that is

(0:21:53) we have to get them out and we have to really wrestle with this topic because this plant is our birthright yeah history go ahead mark yeah it was a part of the history of america and even uh Dan Herer i mean you know he showed a ten dollar bill from the 30s where it shows guys growing hemp on the back of the bill

(0:22:20) That was part of our thing, you know, not to mention constitution and sales for the ships that brought the pilgrims here in the first place. So, yeah, it's in our DNA. Jefferson, Washington, we start with those quotes in the movie. You know, it's an important hemp and all that was in canvas. They used the flower as well as the hemp.

(0:22:41) Yeah. Yeah. Hemp is, it's a real loss that we haven't been able to go back to that era where we've used hemp for so many things because it would be so much more environmentally friendly to what we're doing today. But we'll get there slowly. Oh, great. Yeah.

(0:23:03) Yeah, it's a fantastic material. I have sneakers made out of hemp as well, which I love. And you're starting to see more products coming out made with hemp, but it would be nice to see a lot more. But back to the people that you're interviewing, were there any interviews that were a little too controversial or legally sensitive to include in the documentary? I don't think so, per se, because I think the way Patty's structured,

(0:23:31) the timeline on the edit and, you know, try to keep everything tight and great and the best people on the topics and the experts and scientists and doctors and nurses, especially the nurses, the Cannabis Nurses Network, Nurse Heather, Ken Solber, her husband, wonderful person.

(0:23:50) said hey look at whether you know it or not consuming cannabis is healthy for you it's going to have medicinal benefits so you know those quotes i mean we're learning along the way too you know i mean i i was been growing since i was a kid but i learned all kinds of things that i i i didn't know a whole lot of stuff about terpenes and stuff i just grew it because i like to smell them when i first grew the first

(0:24:14) plants I did, they were a very, they were all sativa and they smelled like pine trees. That was the terpene. And then later I got some Afghanistan hash plant seeds in 76. So I grew some in 77 or 78 and, yeah, maybe 78.

(0:24:33) It was just amazing. Like, wow, this stuff is incredible. I mean, it just smelled like a skunk. And one leaf could cover your head where the sativa ones were thin. And this is the original before it all got hibernized like nowadays. So a big leaf smelled just like a skunk. And I'm like, wow, did it knock you out on your butt? You know, the whole different high is that was an indica. And that was pure one, two. After that, people saw you came.

(0:25:01) grow those together don't never you can't crossbreed and I found out you could I didn't do it on purpose this happened so then the all the plants started becoming a little taller thinner and not the big leaf that could cover your head and the smells started blending and you know so nowadays I would say that I don't know they have thousands of names of stuff back in the days when we were doing it

(0:25:25) one or two varieties of something coming out you know south america generally for california i can talk to you more about that because that's part of the nectar ball collection all these old buds i've gotten including like a tie stick from 1978 that impresses people you know so that's kind of fun and then you know

(0:25:46) Colombian gold. And that's even got the seeds in it. That Bud's special. So, you know, we can talk about that later. Anyway, I do have one note about that. When we first started to interview people, it was, well, Mark had a camera with him in 2016 at the Emerald Cup, and then we brought the full gear extravaganza in 2017. And there's a big issue about trust. I mean, people opening their hearts

(0:26:16) And spilling their secrets about cannabis because it's been dangerous for so long to talk about it even. Yeah, stigma. Trust us as fellow OGs. I don't think anybody who wasn't familiar, knew, had a relationship with cannabis would be able to pull this off.

(0:26:39) Yeah, they respected the fact that I knew about it, but I could show them pictures of actual buds. They said, they still exist. Oh, yeah, with seeds. Oh, my God, never heard. Say, have you heard of it? Nope, never heard of it. So even Penske's like, he wanted to look me up before he did the interview. He wanted to check me out to make sure. Next day, we came back, because we came back in 2018, too, at the Emerald Cup and did interviews again. And little shout outs to Tim Blake and his Emerald Cup at the time.

(0:27:09) people, they responded well, and they said, oh, yeah, you're the real deal, so ask me anything you want. Because, again, it's still pretty illegal back even 16, 17, and 18, those, yeah, medically, okay, and we were in California, but, you know, like you said, people were getting life sentences for a single seed in Texas.

(0:27:31) right which is crazy the trust factor is pretty huge it's an interesting thing that you bring up because people had to trust you that you would safeguard their stories and present them in an honest way and yeah they depending on where they were from or where they were living they could definitely be taking a risk by doing that but that also helps break the stigma as well doesn't it when people are able to open up and say hey

(0:27:55) Even if, you know, you're not a famous person, this is me and I use cannabis because one thing I've learned from doing this podcast is people from all walks of life use cannabis, whether it's just topicals or whether they're smoking a joint every night or whether they're wake and baking or whatever.

(0:28:11) Yeah, people from all walks of life are using cannabis. So it's important to share these stories, I think, so that those who are still in the shadows or maybe even just considering cannabis have role models of other people who are doing it. And, you know, they haven't succumbed to the reefer madness that...

(0:28:30) we are all told would happen. That was, that was, you know, it's funny you say that a lot of famous people. I mean, back when I was 20, um, I met Cheech and Chong at a concert in Vegas and they, they knew my aunt was in the committee, which was, they told them about that. And they got a lot of their earlier funny stuff on their records from the committee, like Herbie and Ralph, the doc, you know, all the skits, a bunch of them, not all of them, of course. And they invited me to the,

(0:28:59) la jolla comedy club when when when they came and i was 20 as long as you don't drink alcohol so i don't care i smoke pot so we'd get high afterwards they never got high before they did they're very professional and we party and i got to know jeez and john that way so i was 20 and tommy was 40. and flash forward

(0:29:19) Pat and I went up to L.A. to interview him when I was 60 and he was 80. That's cool. Now I'm 66, almost 67. So, you know, that was kind of a neat, you know, 40 years later, suddenly. And these guys were always putting themselves out there before anybody. I mean, obviously, famous stoners. And Tommy had to do time for it. Stupid bomb crap.

(0:29:42) Give me a break. He sold the ball across the state line. He took the hit, so his kids didn't have to suffer or anybody else. What a wonderful guy. Those guys always used to go to prisons and help convicts with comedy. They donated their time.

(0:30:00) in the day before their movies came out. Once their movies came out, it became really difficult. Yeah, I'm sure they got pretty busy after that. But that's pretty cool that you're able to see them perform like in a comedy, like at a comedy theater back in the day, like before they were famous.

(0:30:15) well they were famous but they're you know we could hang out and smoke a joint and nobody bothered us right yeah they weren't they weren't uh famous after doing their movies famous i guess yeah that was big that was a big step now they're filling up you know huge theaters as opposed to the little comedy club and don't forget to mention uh that they use your uh plants to model their plants

(0:30:38) Yeah, I had a plant, or I had a couple plants. I showed them some black and white pictures of this particular plant, actually. This is in 1978, and I called it the plant that ate Chicago, and I took a black and white picture that I don't have here that was lower, and it looked huge, like it was looming.

(0:30:59) You know, because all the leaves were hanging down. And I gave them a bunch of black and whites that they were able to use for their Cheech and Chong's next movie, which was the second movie in their installment. And put them all in the pool. And they're all made out of plastic. They weren't real.

(0:31:13) But they used pictures that I gave them to show them because I had these Sensimia plants that not a lot of people back in those days saw that or knew about that. And the pot quality started getting better. And of course, in Humboldt, I've got like some Humboldt from 1979 that was, you know, some Sensi that was great because that's where all the good shit was coming from. A little bit of Maui Waui too, you know, a couple other places. But most of the stuff coming out of Mexico had a lot of seeds in it.

(0:31:41) had been crushed you know or like the like i said the columbian gold or the the tie stick that came in and there's a columbian gold and you can i don't know if the camera can even see it but there you go and it uh it has a couple seeds in it but that was from 1978 but it was all crushed it was like squished yeah like in like in the brick weed that you would yeah exactly yeah that that's what that happened yeah and the uh

(0:32:11) it's if it's and it was because of that i think like with bob marley used to do that too where he buried a little bit it increased it turned to thc to cbd or connect the cannabinoids that got real stony so your pocket yeah it tends to degrade a little bit into something that'll make your couch locked yeah i didn't like that

(0:32:33) Yeah, like the higher high. But that was what it was like back in those days. You know, you got what you got. There was no dispensaries or a choice. And now there's too many names. Girl Scout, whatever cookies. And like, I get the idea, but but, you know.

(0:32:51) It's very similar. I mean, I have a hard time knowing. I mean, I see the differences. I can taste them, obviously, as a connoisseur. And I use these little glass pipettes to smoke with so I can do just a little bit dosing as opposed to smoking a part of a joint or a whole joint. So I think that's a better way to connoisseur. But there's too many varieties of things to choose from nowadays. I don't know.

(0:33:20) Yeah, we've gone from the opposite end of the spectrum. I mean, back in the day, like you're saying, you had brick weed and that was like it. Or you go now and you walk into a dispensary and there's 100 different types of cannabis, dried flower cannabis that you can choose from. And I mean, I'm not going to complain too much about that, but...

(0:33:39) It is nice to have the choice, but yeah, yeah, it can be a little overwhelming. Now, when you started filming in 2017, which of your cannabis, which of your cannabis interviewees made predictions that have completely missed the mark? Because the film, you started filming in 2017 and it came out in 2024. Hmm.

(0:34:04) Patty? Because when I saw that question, I thought to myself, well, some people like talking about how it can, well, the South Africans, they were using it for building materials. I know in Ecuador, we interviewed the museum curator there at the Cannabis Museum, and it was not Ecuador, it was Pat

(0:34:25) Uruguay. Uruguay. The first country. Yes. And he was talking about all these things that can be made from. And sure enough, yeah, they make plastic parts for cars. But it hasn't been embraced as much as I think they or we hoped it would be as far as for things other than just getting high and

(0:34:46) and whatnot. You know, building and fuel, I think it's still not there. And I think also a lot of people say, well, the stigma will be less. No, there's still stigma. We still need to get the word out. We still need to help people see documentaries like Naked Ball, the Story of Canada, so that they can, you know, show their parents and say, or other people that vote, so we can get these bills passed and descheduled. Back in the early, I love that,

(0:35:14) 1979 through 81, we would have a smoke in on campus at UCSD. And I just, we'd give out hundreds of joints and we did it right. We put posters out and say, come after the watermelon drop, you know, exactly this time.

(0:35:30) you know, on this day. And we put the posters out that day and it said, don't legalize, decriminalize. That's what we always thought. I mean, is that tomato plant legal or illegal? No. Why is this? So we need to, it still needs to be scheduled. A lot of people predicted it would, by now it would be, hey, you know, illegal all across the world, or at least in the United States.

(0:35:54) So in that case, some people missed the mark in the prediction of how long it's going to take. It's still taking time. And as you know, even recently, people say, oh, yeah, the new administration is going to help make it legal. No, they're just making up all kinds of other excuses and lying to us. And it's still schedule one. And the DEA could take years more. So people have missed the mark on that number one from my perspective.

(0:36:20) Patty, what do you think? Anything that came to mind to you? Yes, like people like Steve D'Angelo would say they wouldn't make these bold predictions. They would say we're at a crossroads where it's up to us to make a decision on which way to go. And nobody really had any idea of what humanity was willing to do in regards to the cannabis plant. One issue is the banking issue.

(0:36:49) And we were told that a lot of the growers would have to have cash stuffed in storage rooms because they couldn't put it in a bank. And they can't have guns to protect themselves. And so it was a very, and I think it still is, a very negative situation for people involved in the industry. It's very unsafe. Yeah.

(0:37:14) You know, banking just needs to change. I think they're starting to a little. I don't know. I've been hearing stuff.

(0:37:20) friends and relatives that have been trying to get that worked out with the banking thing and it's still kind of yeah that that banking thing is such a it's so frustrating because at the federal level they say well because it's not legal federally they won't um you know banking isn't really an option which i guess is a decision the banks are making but even for myself as a partner in canada i often have through banking partners have run into issues because

(0:37:47) A lot of things like Stripe, for instance, are US-based. And then they're like, oh, you have cannabis in the name of something, you must be selling it or whatever. And then every few months, I feel like I have to, my account gets suspended and I have to argue with them and appeal and be like, I...

(0:38:02) I have an audio podcast that's educational. I don't sell weed or anything, but like, because of those laws in the States, it affects people elsewhere as well, because so many of those partners that you use to produce a show, like relies on platforms that are U S based. And so I'd really love to see that change too. Yeah. And I'm sure shadow band. I mean, sure you, you and us, all of us, we can't seem to get the word out about the documentary is that I said, look, we're not selling power.

(0:38:32) check it we're not selling our tinctures or nectar bomb or anything but you know someday maybe but until then it's just t-shirts or a hat or selling a dvd or in your case podcasts and you know broadcast we put it it's out there on amazon prime why why in the heck can't they

(0:38:51) Why can't we say, just because the word cannabis is in there, we can't advertise it? They want our money. They'll take our money and then say, oh, yeah. But then they limit how many people actually get to see it. It's like you're not getting your full value.

(0:39:06) Yeah, it's still a pretty frustrating space to operate in because of some of those pretty strict limitations around scheduling in the States and banking, the banking system and the rest of it. Any good news? Like, did have there been any developments in the cannabis space that surprised you or any of your, your experts that you interviewed?

(0:39:30) Patty's thinking, I can see it. Yeah, I can see that. But it's also a little telling that you're like, nothing comes to mind immediately. I mean, getting our show on more platforms, that's slowly happening. But go ahead. When our show first, when we were filming it, I think it was around 2018,

(0:40:00) and we videotaped nurse Emac and and we were so impressed by by her knowledge and her brilliance and she came from the pharmaceutical industry she was a representative for the pharmaceutical and you know anthem okay medical and we asked her to speak at our local San Carlos that's where we live in San Diego group at the local library and

(0:40:28) And she did. And the library was packed, packed with mostly seniors, because that's the segment who can really use it. And they really wanted to learn. And I thought that was eye opening. I thought this is great. And that was my focus when I was editing is for the main, mainly the elders and the seniors who are in pain and,

(0:40:51) and need a balm for their shoulders and their aches and pains. Cannabis cookie or drops or tinctures. And I think that's, that's the one glimmer of hope is that when we were in Texas, we, I mean, not tech, we weren't in Texas. We were in Ecuador with some people from Texas and New York. And one of the ladies was an older woman in her early eighties. And she complained about arthritis. And I said, why don't you try some of this? And it was a,

(0:41:21) It was a little container of cannabis that we had been able to obtain in the park from a vendor. So it's said, you know, it's got eucalyptus and all the good stuff in it, but said on the jar, you know, cannabis. Used it and it was an immediate, spontaneous relief for her. And I know that she didn't vote for Kamala, right?

(0:41:46) But it's the inroads you make with people to try and open their minds about the benefits of this plant. Well, especially since they've been taught their whole lives and they were at that age that it was, you know, the devil and reefer madness and marijuana assassin youth crap. So they...

(0:42:10) for them to start waking up like a friend's mother that's, again, in the 80s, 70s, late 80s, early 80s, whatever,

(0:42:18) she said the first time she ever got some sleep from some more nectar bomb. She just put it on some, she said she hadn't had sleep like that for eight years. And I'm like, wow. So her son, you know, so these, that's our little, our little anecdotal tests. And we're seeing that, yeah. And people say that, you know, a lot, a lot of the medicinal abilities and helping people sleep. You know, then there's the CBD stuff and then it's all out there, but it doesn't work as well as if you don't have a little THC mixed in there. You get the full spectrum, get the,

(0:42:50) then it helps your endocannabinoid system much, much better. As you know, as a cook, you gotta use the whole plant. So some of these things are a little, you know, and there's a lot of, of course, con artists out there using, trying to miracle this and that, and then they're only using CBD.

(0:43:04) not even be that real or who knows yeah let me you bring that up because i used to work at a dispensary a few years ago we were the first legal dispensary in my town and some of my favorite customers i've mentioned this numerous times on the show but my favorite customers were often the seniors that would come in because they asked the best questions they were really curious and they listened to what you had to say and they were so grateful for the help that you gave them

(0:43:28) and so and they were having to overcome all this stigma just by walking through the doors of that dispensary but several times some of these folks would come in and show me a bottle and be like this is what I need and it would be like something they'd bought off the internet that was basically a super expensive bottle of hemp oil that you could buy it like any grocery store because it was just like your hemp seeds made into an oil which was like

(0:43:53) you know, it's good for you, but it's not, it's not cannabinoids. Like, yeah. And I just thought of all like so many scams out there and I just felt so bad for these folks, but they're like, honestly, so curious and want to learn more about this plant. And they fall into two categories. I find some seniors are like really interested and want to know more and want to, you know, live better through the benefits of cannabis. And some of them are just like,

(0:44:17) Nope, not interested. Don't talk to me about it. So it really depends. But if you have a friend that's been using topicals or cannabis in some form that's been super helpful, you know, slowly it's that word of mouth that really...

(0:44:32) you know spreads the word and yeah if it didn't work the the even the stuff that's minimal you know quality for expensive price if it didn't work people wouldn't be buying it and talking about it and using it so we know that and in your case you had high quality products so that when these people tried those they were like wow this is way better it's like rick simpson yeah

(0:44:56) You know, so people are like, wow, this is, you know, and whether you make it yourself, which we do, because I can trust the quality of my organic gardening and don't like three or four plants or, you know, I might get a couple of whatever, and I can make enough medicine that I can share with my friends and relatives and use it. But some people are still, like you said, scared of using it, especially if they're older or if they're having problems.

(0:45:26) I had three friends with that horrible glioplastoma brain tumor, whatever, the one that kills everyone but 5% within five years.

(0:45:38) And we had three friends, of the three friends, two used cannabis products in addition to doing the same. All three of them did Western medicine and had surgeries and did chemo and all that stuff that they do for cancer. But two of them used cannabis in addition, and the one that didn't passed away within about a couple of years ago, and the other two are still alive. So that's anecdotal. I'm not saying it's a cure or anything, but it definitely helped some people.

(0:46:05) survive and live longer. I don't know. You know, I wouldn't say they're cancer free because I think it's a pretty bad one, but they're doing better than the people that didn't use cannabis. So there's some, some benefits. I mean, I mean, some people are so, you know, cancer ridden, no matter what they do, it's not going to help.

(0:46:21) yeah yeah well again that goes back to the idea that it's not a it's not miraculous it's not going to cure everything but if it's something that you can add to your toolbox to help with whatever other tools you're using to overcome something then why not yep just like in our documentary and patty will test this and granny's granny um what was she would be giving out uh

(0:46:47) uh, pot brownies to the AIDS victims. Brownie Mary. Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking granny Mary who walks around and was, was against, was against politic money and politics. But anyway, that was granny D. Yeah. But anyway, go ahead, Patty. Yes. So people who, those are the true heroes, people like, uh,

(0:47:14) Brownie Mary and Dennis Perrone and people who put, and Ed Rosenthal, people who put themselves out there. Even in the line of fire at the time, because that was a tough place to be at the time, espousing marijuana.

(0:47:32) Cannabis. Putting yourself in the headlights of the government to go after you and prosecute and put you in jail. There's a lot of great groups out there. Last Prisoner Project, 40 Tons. A lot of people trying to get everybody out. There's still people, believe it or not, that are in there. Even though Joe Biden pardoned a lot and I think he trumped it a couple. But you've got to get these people out. It's ridiculous that they're in jail still for a couple of joints or even if they were

(0:48:01) caught you know selling a couple ounces or whatever you know that's still ridiculous again it's a plant for god's sake and let's get these people out anyway

(0:48:11) Yeah, yeah, no, it's very true. Now, I'm switching gears just a little bit. I'm very curious because your film did focus quite a bit on the American cannabis experience, but obviously you spoke to people all over the world. And were there any international perspectives that you found that were worth emulating in the U.S.?

(0:48:32) yeah just different approaches great people in canada that made it legal for the whole country that was brilliant yeah we still don't have uh we still don't have lounges though yet so um you know that's coming um we did have one guy that we interviewed uh

(0:48:48) in San Diego who was a doctor or a scientist, I should, and was helping formulate and get the most out of the plants. And he said he's going to Canada because he can't study it here in universities in America so easily. So he was going to go to Canada. So it was a brain drain going to Canada right after you guys legalized cannabis. So we saw that happening. That's interesting.

(0:49:12) um yeah was there was there anything else because i'm personally kind of i don't have experience with them myself but i'm curious about like the clubs that you see in other parts yeah that was pretty cool you know we didn't interview all the guys there but they had they had as a the cannabis lounge and the um uh dispenser all in one but they would the lounges would have like a lot of games a lot of people came to socialize and then they'd go in the back and buy a little

(0:49:42) come back back and some of them, they had dab rigs you could borrow, you know, whereas there's one here in San Diego called Sessions Bay, first cannabis lounge that opens in San Diego area. Only indigenous land, let's say. Yeah, but it's here.

(0:50:00) And they have a dispensary downstairs and then different lounge areas all around the place, you know, and then do some entertainment and otherwise people just sit around and get food from a restaurant down below if people want to eat. Some of it's cannabis inspired.

(0:50:16) And the drinks are cannabis-infused. Non-alcoholic, you know. It's like one guy said, yeah, you go into a dispensary or you go into a lounge, you know, everybody's chill and everybody gets along. You can have discussions and arguments, but no one gets in a fight. Whereas you go into a regular bar, people are fighting all the time, you know, and stuff. So it's very, very chill. So of all the, you know, I like the ones in South Africa were kind of the coolest, I found.

(0:50:45) Cause they were, you know, they weren't trying to like, okay, you got to rent this bond or just dab rig or whatever. I remember,

(0:50:51) try and dab first time in our emerald cut in 16 like oh my god it's up in patty too the next year it's like wow this stuff is super why would anybody do that like make it into like one joint you know it's like yeah too much no i'm the same with you i find as i get older my tolerance also decreases so yeah well along the way well we visited paris as well and we were looking for

(0:51:16) some kind of a cannabis connection there was not to be found. Although when we were wearing our hats, there were quite a few people who said how much they liked our hats. And maybe we were the connection, but we weren't. But I mean, the people of the world want and need it. And yet it's being stifled still by oligarchs because they don't want people to wake up

(0:51:45) yeah very very true i there is probably something behind that because they don't want their people to be too aware lest we come together and they resist so question authority yeah question authority what yeah so what just happened with jimmy kimmel when people a massive protest and now he's back on the air after his little suspension

(0:52:13) And so that was. Freedom of the press and the whole, the whole, the whole thing is the same thing with, you know, anything that wakes people up like mushrooms, LSD, the newer ones, people, it's just everything back in the day.

(0:52:33) When you're awake, you tend to question and protest if something bad is happening, whereas if they keep you asleep, you'd be a nice, compliant human being that doesn't question authority, and they get you to

(0:52:48) that let the corporations ruin our planet, you know, and exploit it. And, you know, there's a lot of people crossing borders because there's now 8 billion people, for God's sake, you guys. There's 8 billion plus people. And how can that not make an effect? When you were born, there was probably 2 or 3 billion people. That's it. And the first billion it took until 1864 or something like that.

(0:53:11) So it's just exponential. You can't comprehend it, so therefore you don't see it. And all you see is the effort. Why are all these people coming into Canada and America? They're trying to just stay alive. Human species, it's like any other life form. Selfish, it has to eat food. It has to fight for the food because they don't have enough.

(0:53:36) Or they have to go somewhere and risk their lives to go to get the food. They got to go. You know? I mean, that's just the way it is. There's just too many people. Number one. Yeah. Yeah. That's why we didn't have kids. Part of the reason, I should say. Right. Now, did either of you, I don't remember from the documentary, but did either of you spend any time in Germany? I guess Germany legalized after the film was out, but...

(0:53:57) Because I'm curious about their grow clubs that they have because they don't have like a retail system at all at this point, even though they've been legal for just over a year now. But I am curious about their grow clubs because I just feel like it's such a natural way to build community around the plant instead of it being super commercialized. And just wondering if you had any experience with that. Well, Amsterdam has been the closest and we went around other parts of Holland too and did that kind of stuff.

(0:54:26) um so we we found that to be very interesting that uh they had both the clubs but then when you bought the pot you had to it was had to be separate you know like like well you can't and then you had to go buy a pipe somewhere else you know i thought man these guys are like wow your pipettes would be a big hit because the cheapest pipe you can buy next door is like two euros i'm like yeah you can sell these for

(0:54:52) half a third of that price or you know or less but um yeah it's and it was illegal to grow there it's legal to grow there so one of our interviewees said yeah so it's supposed to magically appear at the back door of the dispensary somehow

(0:55:08) Yeah, it's an odd little thing of their system over there that it's worked for a long time, but it's kind of, it is odd. Yeah, they're more like Germany in that sense. But then, like I've been to Germany several times, but not since they've legalized cannabis. That and Canada and a few other countries, we'd love to, if we got to do a series and like to do a lot more interviews and maybe come up and see you and get some people interviewed up in your neck of the woods and

(0:55:39) know your your luminaries up there cannabis luminaries so yeah yeah absolutely now just i want to be mindful of your time because we've been talking for a little bit but tell p can you tell people where they can find nectar ball out there in the world i will link to everything in the show notes as well so that they can find it pretty easily hopefully some you guys can take a look at the one minute trailer at nectarball.com

(0:56:02) Also, you can see a three-minute video Pat put together about my collection, the Nectar Ball collection itself. It's all free. And then I would encourage you to sign up for Patty's free Substack newsletter. What are you calling it these days, even though it's cannabis-related and also about love? Ah, Real Life Love Stories. Real Life Love Stories. That's her Substack newsletter. Again, all this is free. It's just our way of sharing with the world ways to help.

(0:56:32) There will be a better place both with cannabis. One other thing I wanted to ask about is you've referenced this nectar ball collection a few times. How, so you have, from what I understand, a collection of buds from various stages of your career in cannabis. How do you preserve them? Not well enough. I was back in the day when I first got my 1972 little bud, I was like, I don't know, 14 or 13 and a half, 14.

(0:57:00) and uh i put in a curad basket a bag in a little lunch not even they didn't even have ceiling those and it was just a little plastic lunch pack and uh that that got kind of beat up pretty good i think i got a picture of a couple pictures of it um you know so like i think that might be well here it is this is that this is the acapulco gold

(0:57:26) from 1972, if it'll focus again. And it's not particularly good looking. That's like the lids or junk we used to get. But it was on a little package on a spear at the time. And then it's in seal-a-mules. Now it's little seal-a-meal things. So that's the Humboldt. And then Black Afghanistan Hash Plant.

(0:57:53) 1978 all my greatest hits are from the 70s right and then early 80s i got some nice stuff then but uh people like robert clark and other geneticists were very interested in it i had robert clark over at the house i showed him the collection and the only few handful of people have ever seen it and they they loved the um

(0:58:15) loved it and they wanted little pieces of it for DNA extraction so that they could help figure out the land race history and stuff, the project they were in. But it turns out that project fell apart and was not good. Bad guys are trying to steal the DNA, just like the woman at the Emerald Cup I went to at the history section said, yeah, she was in charge of the Lakota Seed Bank. And people like Monsanto were sending spies to try and steal the corn and squash seed, old genetics.

(0:58:43) So the genetics on this is very, very special. I tried giving the whole collection to the Smithsonian at one time back in the 80s, but because it's federally illegal, you can't even ship it across state lines, so I couldn't do that and put it in a safety deposit box or whatever.

(0:59:04) You know, like it should be frozen, supposedly. But at this point, it's mummies. The DNA is still there, still viable. So people can do that if they want. I don't think the seeds are. That would be interesting to try and pop those seeds. I've talked to Ed Rosenthal thinks I can. And there's a couple of people that said that they popped some old seeds from the early 70s, even maybe even 60s. But, you know, I don't I talked to a couple of people. They say that and that they're.

(0:59:32) their collections of seeds are worth hundreds of millions because it's that rare. Because those land races haven't been polluted. Supposedly during Operation Greensweep, the government dumped a bunch of hemp pollen over there and screwed up the land races up in Humboldt in the Triangle. I don't know if that's true or not, but whatever, the land races now aren't as pure as they used to. Now everything's cross

(1:00:00) contaminated with indica, sativa, who knows what, some of the hemp, rudella, whatever. Yeah, most stuff is hybrid at this point these days. And there's some advantages to that, but it is nice. You know, it would be nice. Like Panama Red, I had a little Panama Red from 78 that Swami goes, man, that was my favorite because I used to laugh so hard on that. So there's, you know, some of that stuff's lost nowadays, but

(1:00:28) Yeah, you know, if they can resurrect it, like I say in the movie, The Legend of 420, which I was in, but I didn't show my face. I showed the collection there and I said, maybe it's like Jurassic Park and they can resurrect the DNA and make these old land races come back alive. So I know it's possible, but whether someone wants to spend the money to do that or not. So I'm willing to, you know, anybody scientist-wise wants a piece of this, they are welcome to it.

(1:00:59) you know, free to charge, you know, to help the world be a better place with cannabis in it. Again, same thing with our movies. And if people want to go to NectarBall.com, it'll point them out. Otherwise, our NectarBall, the story of cannabis is on Amazon Prime, RedCoralUniverse.com. The Cannabis and Fighting Cancer with Cannabis is on CitizenGreen.tv. Binge...

(1:01:29) uh, tv.com is also a place you can see a lot, all our movies, including our mountain biking ones and, and, uh, how to shows and pretty much everything other than the short films, everything's generally a half hour. Is everything also available on Vimeo? Cause that's where I watched the nectar ball documentary. That's it. You can go to nectarball.com. Uh, we charge 420 and it helps us try and get some of our money back. We appreciate that. Or if you want to buy the DVD, it's 1888.

(1:01:59) those of you out there that have a dvd player yeah you know what those these things are making a resurgence these things like dvd players and cd players vitals like pretty popular i think people can you believe it i've heard about that yeah yeah yeah but i was just asking because not everybody has amazon prime but you can always just go on and rent it for 420 which is pretty very reasonable a lot less than going to your movie theater

(1:02:25) And watch it over on Fabio as well. It's commercial free, too. Yes. So, yeah. So, you know, if you want to help us out, go to NectarBall.com, like under my name here. Yeah. It would really help out. And we're going to try and come out with some more merchandise here soon, too, like a hat here. That was pretty popular. People loved it because even got little sparkles in there. So it looks like crystals. But the woman that makes those, it's kind of hard to get those made. And it's not cheap, but you get a hemp hat.

(1:02:55) we're trying to figure out a way of doing that otherwise it'd be like 50 bucks yeah yeah just to make that but anyway and then um one other thing that i was going to mention is that my latest focus has been on editing a full feature documentary called north american journey and i've been implementing ai tools for that including

(1:03:21) uh, the creation of music, Americana music, and it's in little segments. So back in 1986, Mark and I, when we were young and cute, took off on a nationwide adventure up the coast through Canada, Alaska, back through Canada again, winding down and around all the national parks and, uh,

(1:03:49) We went, the peak of the journey is Denali and also a grizzly bear attack in the Yukon. So I've sent this off to a few film festivals and it's one best feature in two of them and it has been selected in two others.

(1:04:10) Oh, very cool. The AI helps make that old VHS footage because that's all we had in those days. We were just in 1986. Camcorder, you know, it wasn't even a camcorder. It was that it had a backpack with a deck and then the camera's small. And we went, we backpacked with it, you know, with the grizzly bears and everything all around. That's terrifying. The grizzly bears. Yeah, that was a do or die.

(1:04:37) And Pat wrote all the lyrics in the music, and then AI does the music. I'm like, wow, this is good stuff. And then she also does her lyrics and poems. And then you hear us talking just like we did when we're out there. Hey, wow, look at that. Let's go climb that. Let's go do this. Or look at that waterfall. And so it's just two innocent 20-somethings having a good time traveling North America.

(1:05:04) all the way down to Key West Florida and back across, back to San Diego. So 25,000 miles in nine months. We didn't just forget what day or week it was or where we were sometimes, but we forgot what year it was at one point. What year is this? It takes you back to a time, 1986, when we met a lot of interesting people. Not everybody had the same political beliefs, no, but we still got along.

(1:05:33) And it shows what's possible now. You can still enjoy the company of other people, whether you agree with them or not. And eat your meal. Bite me. Yes, I agree. And you know what? I think that's a beautiful place to end because one thing that cannabis is wonderful is does help connect people. But just that reminder also that food can bring people together. It doesn't matter if you have different beliefs about politics or whatever. We can still all get along.

(1:06:02) So with that, I just want to thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. And listeners do check out Nectar Ball, their documentary. And it sounds like you have a lot of other fun projects coming up as well. So I'll link to all those in the show notes. And I just wanted to say thank you once again for your time today. Well, thank you too. And Nectar Ball is a great place, but also newunique.com. So that's another great www thing.

(1:06:28) But you did great, Margaret. Thank you so much for having us on with you. It was a pleasure. Yeah, absolutely. Friends, I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I enjoyed having it. I will, of course, link everything that we talked about in the show notes, including the link to where you can check out the documentary for yourself. As we mentioned in the show, you can support these artists with only $4.20 by checking out the documentary on Vimeo. And we need more independent filmmaking like this in the world.

(1:06:55) especially when it comes to advocating for cannabis, because there's still so much stigma surrounding it to this day. Sharing is caring. If you know somebody who would be interested in this documentary, in this conversation, please share with them the episode right now. And as always, my friends, I am so grateful that you're here supporting the podcast and listening each and every week. So until next time, my friends, I'm your host, Margaret. Stay high.