Chef Jordan Wagman is Changing the Narrative with Infused Food and Drink

Marge (00:00:06) - In this week's episode, I sit down with culinary cannabis chef Jordan Wagman. Welcome to Bite Me, the show about edibles where I help you take control of your high life. I'm your host and certified gong Marge, and I love helping cooks make safe and effective edibles at home. I'm so glad you're here, and thank you for joining me today,

Marge (00:00:29) - Chef Jordan. Wagman's outlook on life is infectious. His excitement about the future of cannabis food and drink is palatable. As a mental health survivor, he discovered the benefits of optimal nutrition and cannabis as a means to overcome a lengthy battle with psoriasis. I couldn't think of a better guess to impart life and cannabis wisdom for episode 200 of Bite Me. Enjoy this conversation with Chef Jordan Wagman. All right, everyone, I am thrilled today to be joined by Chef Jordan Wagman, and this is a conversation I've been looking to forward to for quite some time. Cause I don't know if you remember Jordan, but we met last year at the Lifton Co very briefly. But I have been a listener of your podcast in The Weeds. And I would love if you would just take a second and introduce yourself to the audience, the listeners of Bite Me.

Jordan Wagman (00:01:20) - Well, hello, bite me. Um, I love your show. I love the name. You're awesome. You're really good, by the way. You're really, really, so, no, thank you for having me. Um, my name is Jordan Wagman. I am a chef and cookbook author, um, call myself a mental health survivor, um, because, you know, my brother Ryan sort of coined that for me after we lost a friend of ours. You know, it's, um, I don't think I can be an advocate for something. I, I think I'm surviving this mental health sort of crisis. I believe that, you know, I'm on the other side of it, putting those tools in my toolbox. But I'm a mental health survivor, um, at the forefront of cannabis, food and beverage. I am a patient first and foremost in cannabis. I didn't realize that, which I'm happy to, you know, expand on. But I travel the world educating people on infusing cannabis and food and beverage. I love interviewing people. I love being in media. But first and foremost, it is really all about medicine and, and how do we get it to the masses? And it's, you know, you're doing the same and preaching the same gospel that I am. So what you're doing is God's work. And yeah, I mean, that's me. And just trying to, you know, just be out there and prop up those who are doing great work in the business. So

Marge (00:02:49) - That's wonderful. And that's actually what I really like to do, which is one reason why I wanted to have you on my show as well. And it sounds like you've had quite the cannabis journey, if you will, and maybe you can take a few minutes to talk about that.

Jordan Wagman (00:03:02) - Yeah, I mean, I, I always, I joke because, you know, I love the Grateful Dead growing up. I love the Grateful Dead period. I love the Grateful Dead. And so I used to think that I smoked joints every day since I was 12 because I loved The Dead. And I started playing guitar and I would sing and, you know, so you're a musician and it's cool. And, and the truth is, I was diagnosed with psoriasis at the age of 12. And so everything I did in my life, subsequent to that diagnosis, revolved around my health. Um, I wrote every high school exam in the hospital, literally like a year of my life was spent between Sunnybrook Hospital and Sick Children's Hospital in Toronto. Um, my, it's weird. I'm, the first time I'm telling this story since it's actually my ex-wife, but my ex-wife and I were together for 31 years, since we were, since I was 20 years old, right?

Jordan Wagman (00:03:56) - And so she was studying at Tel Aviv University, and I ended up living in a tent of the Dead Sea in Israel for a year and a half of my life getting psoriasis treatments every day, right where I would get up, I would sit in the sunshine and I would get psoriasis treatment by literally sitting in the sun 14, 15 hours a day. And that was my treatment. Now, the psoriasis would go away, but when I went back to Toronto, I literally got off the plane and my psoriasis would start to come back and, you know, so really every decision I made, and I, I never was fully invested in my health. Um, meaning that I always prioritized my career first, or no, I always prioritized my career first period and early, early on and to my health, you know, to the detriment of my health.

Jordan Wagman (00:04:46) - Um, I ended up moving to, uh, you know, back and forth. I, I, I went to Florida, I went to culinary school. I lived in Colorado, I lived in California, and ultimately it brought me back to Canada. But every step along the way, and that first piece to my health puzzle, that sunshine, I, I call it that first piece to my health puzzle, you know, it was amazing to find it, but it wasn't enough because it wasn't sustaining. And so finally, and I had always heard about homeo, homeopathy and naturopathic remedies and, and, and different approaches, natural approaches to treating ailments and getting away from western medicine. And so at 43 years old, only eight years ago, I sought the help of a natural path. And from this one meeting, removed gluten dairy and refined sugar from my diet, and began consuming thousands of milligrams of cannabis a day and lots of terpenes. And in 60 days, my psoriasis went away after, in 60

Marge (00:05:49) - Days

Jordan Wagman (00:05:50) - My lifetime fighting this my lifetime. And when I say fighting it, I mean, I didn't know what day, what time of the day to shower, because if it was wintertime, I'd have to put on my medicine. It was like petroleum based. And it was, so imagine putting petroleum like Vaseline on, and then your jeans on and walking out into minus 30 weather and the, you know, heart of winter and Toronto, you know, it's, it's, it's brutal. And so, you know, every decision I make, so when I found my physical health, it's, it's so incredible. And I tie it back to my mental health is I became mentally healthy. I, I actually found when I found my physical health, I, I, I found my mental, mental health as well because I ne I, I was so busy in constantly in fight, right? I was constantly in fight mode.

Jordan Wagman (00:06:45) - My body was in fight mode. My, my mind was in fight mode. And although I have two incredible kids, and my wife, ex-wife, she's amazing. You know, like, she's a great friend. And, and we, it's, you know, been together a lifetime, but I was a much better version of myself when I became physically and mentally healthy. Mm-hmm. . So that's been when I realized that cannabis is not just that thing. I smoke and enjoy. I, I do enjoy smoking joints. I smoke them before yoga, after yoga, and all the way until I go to sleep at night. But I also consume through, you know, different oils and different, you know, means, um, lots of different cannabinoids and terpenes. And it was a game changer. And I realized that for people, as recently as my dad in the last year with who has a brain tumor, I realized that, you know, cannabis f and b is, you know, probably a great segue for you, but like, you know, cannabis, f and b is the greatest gateway for these people who don't fucking consume cannabis, right?

Jordan Wagman (00:07:45) - Because they're not gonna join me outside smoking a joint or grabbing a vape and vaping if they've never can, you know, done anything combustible in their life. But they will grab a brownie or one of my fruit rollups or a chocolate truffle or a beverage without refined sugar and so on. Anyways, but that's, yeah. You know, that's the cannabis journey. And so here I am really trying to, just trying to change the narrative a little bit, right? So it's easy to cook for stoners, it's easy to create products for stoners. I'm one of 'em. But is it easy to create a product for my dad, my mom, their, their peers? I believe it is. It's just that it's not being done, you know, not being done at scale anyways.

Marge (00:08:26) - And it's gonna need to look a little bit different as well, because my own father, he's in his nineties now, he changed his mind about cannabis when it went legal. So all through my , all through my, uh, you know, teenage years and the rest of my life, you know, it's, it's wrong. You shouldn't do it. It's illegal. He obviously grew up with the reefer madness propaganda, and he's never gonna smoke a joint with me or hit my dry herb vape or anything. But he will consume oils and he will use topicals and low dose edibles. And so it is such an, a great entry point for so many people, and they're so useful and helpful as well. Now, I'm curious when it comes to the naturopath that you went to see, did they recommend using cannabis as part of the protocol to eliminate those other foods from your diet?

Jordan Wagman (00:09:12) - Absolutely, she did. And it was a suggestion, and I looked into it, and it was trial and error, as you know. Mm-hmm. , um, you know, try fi, finding what works for you and what does that mean, A number of different things, you know, from your, the potency that works for you, the cannabinoid that works for you, the time of day, like the method, like the TURPs, there's so many variables here and what you're like, it's, we're so individual, right? Like I mm-hmm. , I always quote Deb Kim list, Dr. Deb Kims when she told me it's, we're all in end of one, right? We're all individuals, so our endocannabinoid system differs from person to person. So anyways, what we respond to differs. So,

Marge (00:09:56) - Right. She must have been very progressive then, cuz I know there's lots of medical doctors that would never have suggested cannabis, uh, eight years ago, you know, so that's, that's very fortunate that you managed to meet someone who was so open-minded when it came to cannabis as well.

Jordan Wagman (00:10:10) - One, I think she's also somebody who's, you know, she, she believes in alternative methods of healing, but also, you know, gut health at the forefront of that, right? So, autoimmune disease, you know, mind specifically psoriasis, you know, Crohn's, gla a lot of this, you know, we, we, we can really help ourselves by, by, you know, take a look at the a i p the autoimmune protocol, right? Where you're eliminating certain food stuff, whether it be gluten, dairy, refined sugar, or nightshade vegetables, rices, corn, whatever that looks like. And then you can slowly over time begin to integrate some of those back in moderation and see how your body reacts. But I'll tell you, I also lost 30 pounds in those 60 days. Why? Because I, and I worked out, just full disclosure, I worked out since the day my son was born, and sometimes before that, but certainly when my son was born, I made an effort.

Jordan Wagman (00:11:03) - I'm gonna work out, I wanna be able to kick his toes on, on, on the hockey rink. I wanna be able to beat him at basketball, and now he's six two and can kick my ass all the way around everywhere, . Um, you know, but I just, I, I lost 30 pounds. I never realized it. And then you remove refined sugar and you realize, holy moly, like a, it's an addiction. I never realized I had, and b, we pack on all this extra weight because it's just, it's just needless, like, it's just the calories, the needless calories, right? That we consume all the time. So I, I, you know, bringing this back to the cannabis f and b space, it's like, you know, you think about it this way, if cannabis is medicine, how can we be selling all of this f and b product in Canada?

Jordan Wagman (00:11:51) - Forget about elsewhere in Canada, first and foremost in Canada with corn syrup, with different refined sugars, with junky ingredients. Those cause inflammation, they cause different needs states. So what we're gonna look to solve for one, by causing additional needs states, come on. Right? So if we actually integrate, you know, if we, if we start integrating chefs and mixologists into that process, and we start to look at alternative ways to actually create this food in beverage using maple syrup, using agave, using Honey li using different sweeteners that actually are not causing inflammation, imagine what a difference maker we would have then

Marge (00:12:30) - It would make a huge difference. And I really like that you point that out, because cannabis as a wellness product, it sort of takes cannabis as a wellness product versus cannabis as a vehicle to just get you high. They're two very different things. And yeah, if you wanna get high and you wanna eat a bunch of gummies or consumer packaged goods full of preservatives and all kinds of stuff that's there, but a lot of people are seeking that wellness side to cannabis. And so that brings the next question, which is, what are some of the challenges that you have to overcome when you're cooking gl like gluten free, sugar free, dairy free?

Jordan Wagman (00:13:05) - You know, I used to think there were challenges, and, and there were, when I, when I got home, and I, I, I taught at the school this week, and I taught fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth graders. And I was using this Wizard of Oz analogy where I came home from the doctor's office and I explained to them, you know, have you ever seen wizard fo and their lions and tigers and bears? Oh, my. And I'm thinking gluten, dairy, and refined sugar. Holy shit, what am I gonna do? I'm trained like in classic French technique. So let's, let's talk about that for a second. I don't know many sauce that I created without butter. I don't know many breads or any pastries or, or anything that I created without gluten, without, without flour, right? Without, without all purpose, flour, and then dairy. So how do you make ice cream without dairy?

Jordan Wagman (00:14:04) - How do you make ice cream without, you know, without eggs? So every single one of my desserts now are vegan. Totally 100% plant-based, every single, am I lying? I don't think so. . I'm thinking if I, maybe I do one with egg, I'm thinking maybe I've done something with an egg before. But everything is plant-based, right? So the challenges early on were a get over yourself, Jordan. Like, unlearn everything you've learned now, create things based on ingredients that your body will tolerate and your natural path will, will approve of. So trial and error, um, coconut milk became my new cream and coconut milk, and I can give examples. Dolce Deci is a wonderful, you know, I think, you know, so here's a quick recipe for anyone listening, who cares? But it's, it's, it's going in my new book. And, but this is not much of a recipe.

Jordan Wagman (00:15:12) - It's just trial and error. You take coconut milk, full fat, coconut milk, and you combine it with maple syrup. Now I would go 75%, 25%, right? 75% coconut milk, 25% maple syrup. I'd put them in a sauce pan and I'd bring them to a simmer on low, on low heat. And I'd let that simmer until all that liquid reduces by three quarters. And what you're left with as you cool it down and you put it into a Tupperware, and then you store it into your fridge after it's spin, you know, sitting at room temperature is the most decadent, dolche, che, vegan dolche che. What can you do with that? I could make a million

Marge (00:15:52) - So many things ,

Jordan Wagman (00:15:54) - Or do you know what I can do? I can take a spoon and I can eat it right from the freaking jar because it just is that good, but it's too ingredients. And, and so how did I create that? Totally by accident. I was making something reduced it too far, tasting it after it co cooled down. And I'm like, holy shit, I just created dolche DeLeT. If I tell you how many times that has happened through this journey, that's how I've created so many of these recipes in my book. It's the challenges we're getting over myself. It's unlearn everything. Don't be afraid as a home cook, as a professional chef to make mistakes with your food stuff. Now, making mistakes and cooking with cannabis, that's a different conversation in something that obviously, you know, is, is, is worth addressing and, and that consistency. But, you know, the challenges were really about getting over myself more than anything. Right?

Marge (00:16:58) - And it sounds like too, it's just looking for alternatives. Like you can use maple syrup, which is full of minerals and antioxidants and all that kind of thing. It's natural. It's from the trees versus a highly refined table sugar, which is often used.

Jordan Wagman (00:17:11) - And so when I was in the process example, yes, a hundred percent. And so what I would say is if you take, you know, what do we have that makes up maple syrup? For all intents and purposes, maple sugar and water, that's what it is, right? That's maple syrup, right? It's, so as the maple syrup starts to Eva, as the water starts to evaporate, what are you left with? Maple sugar, which creates candy, right? So everything that I create as I reduce things, that's how I make my granola, that's how I make a, an almond cookie crumble, which is, again, warm saute, pan toast, almond flour, add maple syrup, make a dough, put it in your oven, and watch it, and stir it around for the next two hours, three hours on really low temperature. And you'll create the greatest almond cookie crumble you'll ever have. You can put it on top of yogurt in the morning, you can put it on top of ice cream at night, whatever you want. Two ingredients, right? Maybe serve wonder ingredient.

Marge (00:18:10) - So experiment people. That's all, that's all it really is. Experiment. Don't be afraid to make mistakes, substitutions. But where did the interest in culinary cannabis come in? I mean, it sounds like you've been sort of a lifelong cannabis user. You're a chef. When did the interest in cooking with cannabis come about?

Jordan Wagman (00:18:27) - You know, so, so the truth is, is that I came out of the cannabis closet exactly when your dad did. Um, right. When it became legal. I'm a father. And so I definitely was, you know, I've been cooking with cannabis my whole life. Um, did I learn a lot more as it became a, you know, a professional chef than when I was, uh, you know, the degenerate Grateful Dead, listening to Grateful Dead playing dude. Yeah, for sure I did. And I took a lot of more responsibility in, you know, in precise dosing and, and, you know, being safe and creating repeatable experience of for people. Um, but I got into it when I realized that it's a game changer, that it can change people's lives. When I changed my health, when, when, when, when I changed my diet, it all changed for me. Everything changed for me.

Jordan Wagman (00:19:16) - And I became much more philanthropic than I ever was before I had more bandwidth for giving back. And in whatever capacity that meant. So yeah, I mean, it's, I I got into it when I changed my health, simple as that. I knew that this was, and, and so I say it this way, I lost my culinary voice long ago. Um, you know, I reached, I had great success at 30 years old in Colorado. I received great recognition. It opened up a lot of doors for me. There's no question. But, um, yeah, I, I mean, for me, it's, uh, yeah, cannabis, cannabis is something that I realized very quickly when my health changed, that this changes lives and right, and, and it's more than just cannabis though. It's more than just consuming cannabis. And what I realized early on was I lost a lot of weight because I worked out every day. I, you know, and once I changed my diet and began incorporating cannabis into, into my diet, that's the trifecta as far as I'm concerned, you know, you really need at least two of these three, if not all three, to really try to mitigate these things from happening in our life. And still, there's no guarantees, obviously, but mm-hmm. , you know, consuming cannabis without going to the gym or working out and eating McDonald's every day, that's not really a recipe for success,

Marge (00:20:51) - Right? Yes, that's very true. Now, you started cooking with cannabis, and I'm sure you've seen lots of people cooking with cannabis, and it's a wonderful super food ingredient. But what are some of the common mistakes that you see people making that when they're attempting to make their own edibles, I'm sure you've seen it all. ,

Jordan Wagman (00:21:10) - I, I, I see it, and it's, and I'll tell you, some of it's more frustrating than others, uh, okay. In that, you know, you have people who are claiming to be professionals, um, who are not necessarily teaching people safe ways to consume cannabis. So here's how I talk about it. If you live in a legal environment, take advantage of the efficacy offered to you in a legal environment. Go to a dispensary and buy an oil, for example, that you can emulsify into food stuff that, you know, to two decimal places, the potency of that oil, you know, how many milligrams per milliliter, for example. And that offers a certain amount of efficacy to what it is that you're creating if you choose to create your own oils. Now, if you don't live in a legal environment, and I've been there, we've all been there mm-hmm.

Jordan Wagman (00:22:03) - mm-hmm. . And so if you are having to make infusions at home, one of two things must happen, you know, to ensure the safety of others. One, you don't serve it to others, right? That's one, that's one way to ensure the safety of others don't serve your infusions. If you have no idea the potency of your cannabis, don't serve them to others. Two, send them out to a lab and get them tested. Now, is that feasible? In all likelihood? No. But there are tests that we can do that can give you some level of accuracy. Will it be as accurate as purchasing an that oil in, in a dispensary in Toronto? No, it won't be. Will it be something that you can take within a tolerance? Sure. Absolutely. I will give you that. It is not as precise as buying something in a store.

Jordan Wagman (00:22:54) - So I would suggest, and, and you asked like the biggest mistakes. The biggest mistakes are eating something and cooking with cannabis, and not understanding how much cannabis is in each portion of food that you're serving or drink that you're serving to somebody. Right? The other thing is, and, and the way that I started working with some companies in this space was I actually reached out after I read some of their content. I said, this is wrong. Like, it's just wrong. It's, it's, it's, forget unsafe, it's not, right. So I'll give you an example. Mm-hmm. , um, you know, there was the Enigma has some of the best cannabis content around, I believe mm-hmm. , full transparency. See? Yes, I'm absolutely involved in the company. They're an Israeli company. Atlantic, uh, you know, Ilana Goldberg is the ceo. She's a powerhouse. But they were curating some content early on before I got involved.

Jordan Wagman (00:23:46) - That was sh being shared by or from another site who, doesn't matter who it is, I don't need to, you know, to mention them. But it was about, for example, infusing hot chocolate. Okay? So give you an example. Make hot chocolate, take oil, like take distillate, um, and, and, and put a little couple droppers of, of, of cannabis oil onto, you know, into the hot chocolate stir and drink. Okay? Fair enough. Well, I ask all of you do oil and water mix, because to the best of my knowledge, they don't. So when you take this little, that little dropper of oil and you put it onto your hot chocolate or coffee or water or juice or whatever else, please don't think that you are infusing cannabis into food and beverage. You aren't. You are simply putting cannabis onto your food or beverage and not safely.

Jordan Wagman (00:24:39) - I may add. And here's why. Because if you decide to put that onto chocolate pudding or into hot chocolate as two, you know, examples go, what happens if I serve it to you? And you take that one bite where the distillate is on the cho, you know, or the, the oil is on the, on the, on the, the, the chocolate pudding. Or you go to drink it and you can drink all of that cannabis oil that was on the surface of that hot chocolate. Well, what, what's happened when you turn to me and you say, you know what, chef? I don't really feel like eating all that I, I've had too much cannabis, or I'm gonna tap out. Well, tough luck Charlie, cuz you've already consumed a hundred percent of what I've infused in there, rather than creating a chocolate pudding that actually, you know, has the cannabis emulsified, which is homogenous inside that chocolate pudding, meaning that the cannabis is evenly distributed or equally distributed in that food stuff.

Jordan Wagman (00:25:35) - Same goes along with that hot chocolate. I wouldn't infuse the hot chocolate as a matter of fact, I'd probably infuse whatever it is that I'm gonna put on top of it. Is that a whipped cream? Whatever that looks like. But those are, those are the common mistakes constantly. It's about infusing things into food stuff that you can emulsify properly. And you're not going to take pasta and sear it in cannabis oil and garlic and pa pesto. Sorry. Right. That doesn't work. By the time you've put that into that whatever degree pan that's going to be, you've got no cannabis left. There's no integrity of that product left. Right? Right. So would I do differently? I would infuse it into my pesto, right? Very simply. And I'd garnish with that pesto right on top. I know exactly how much it is. That's not the same thing as dropping it on. They can now stir that in and it's evenly distributed, or I can take it and toss it and it's evenly distributed. Mm-hmm. , those are the comments. Yeah.

Marge (00:26:39) - And I do like that because you talk about dosing and it's one thing to experiment on yourself when you're uncertain of the potency of something. But it's a whole other thing when you're gifting it to friends and family. And you definitely don't want, like, when somebody gives me an edible and I have no idea how strong it is, I'm so reluctant to eat it now because it's just such a gamble that I'm not willing to take. I've done it too many times, .

Jordan Wagman (00:27:03) - But what happens? So then what happens if, if you take that edible and cuz we're the same, like I'll still, you know, I'll try it, whatever, but what happens if we really love it? Right? What we really, really, that was the best edible. That was the perfect dose. Hey, how, how much did you put in there? I don't know.

Marge (00:27:24) - Right

Jordan Wagman (00:27:25) - Now,

Marge (00:27:27) - ,

Jordan Wagman (00:27:27) - Now you know, now you can't even recreate the experience cuz you have no idea because the person who made it for you has no freaking clue how much cannabis was in there. Conversely, what happens? Who was a really bad experience? Now what's happened? Forget about, hey, how much was in it? That conversation won't happen. You know, what's conversation's gonna be? I will never touch cannabis again. Right. That's what's gonna happen. Yeah. Especially if that, like, if that person's new to cannabis, we've lost them forever.

Marge (00:27:55) - Yeah. Yeah. That's so true. And I, I probably used to be a lot more like willing to experiment on myself, but over the years, I've just found ways. I live in a legal environment, of course, like you do. So I used to think my tolerance was a certain amount and then I compared it to dispensary, edibles and found out quite quickly that perhaps I was aiming a bit too high. But that's good because, you know, when you're experimenting on yourself, but in any case, um, I'm really glad you brought that up cuz dosing is so important for people to have a great time. Which brings me to my next question, which is what are some of your favorite recipes to infuse and why do you think they work so well?

Jordan Wagman (00:28:33) - You know, it's, it's, it's funny, I it's the technique. It's not the specific, I have my favorites, I have my signatures for sure, right? And I can share those. But, you know, for me it's about I'm, I buy the best ingredients I can, which to me means local and seasonal. I do very little to them and I serve them. That's, that's the secret to my success. And so, or, or forget my success, that's the secret to the success of creating good food, right? Quality food. Mm-hmm. , buy the best ingredient you can do very little to them and, and serve them.

Jordan Wagman (00:29:09) - I always emulsify my cannabis into a liquid, if you will. So that could be a brownie mixture, that could be chocolate, that could be pesto, it could be tomato sauce, it could be a number of different things. The cannabis that I love to use depends on the flavor profile of the dish. So for example, I would love to choose a, you know, a a a cannabis that is very citrusy if I'm going to serve it with a ceviche, right? Mm-hmm. , if I'm going to serve something with a cured, like that's cured fish, it's a what? Ceviche or it could be a tartar somewhere where I'm putting really, it's very acid forward. That's where the terpenes would go really well if I'm, and, and so I would always infuse that, um, into, it could be a coconut milk mixture. It could be like a, a vegan mayonnaise that I need.

Jordan Wagman (00:30:11) - It could make, it could be a, a cashew cra, it could be an avocado cream, it could be a number of different foods. Okay? Um, so it's really, for me it's about taking the best ingredients and then pairing it with the cannabis. But to answer your question, I have my go-tos number one on the list, tomato sauce, best tomato sauce can ever make. And so it's, uh, and I say that with certainty. Why? Because it's the easiest tastiest and has two ingredients, cherry tomatoes and olive oil. And what happens is, again, it's one of these where I make these cherry tomato sauce and then I over emulsified and I'm like, oh my God, I just made like a, a tomato cream sauce without any cream. What happens is, obviously as you create an emulsification, like as a man is right where you're suspending two ingredients that don't typically mix.

Jordan Wagman (00:31:05) - In that instance, you've got all the wet ingredients, the dejan, the, the vinegars, the the egg, and you're adding oil to emulsify. So you're suspending all of those wet ingredients into the oil. So I am constantly making different, um, you know, emulsification all stemming from this tomato sauce. You take a sauce ban, cherry tomatoes, two pints, so like two bay half, you know, two cups, whatever that looks like. It's really all about this technique. Sauce pan with tight fitting lid. You take enough oil, just olive oil just to cover the bottom of the pan. Okay? You can add a couple tail tablespoons of water and a little bit of salt. That's it. And you cover the pot and you put it on low. And what happens is, and, and I tell you time doesn't matter. Here's what you're waiting for. . As you are cooking those on low, the tomatoes start to cook and the skin start to split.

Jordan Wagman (00:32:06) - The water starts to exude, starts to be drawn out from those tomatoes. And you'll see you, you started with a dry pan. And in no time all of the tomatoes will have opened up and they'll be covered in that tomato water. You know, you're done at that point. It's about 15 to 20 minutes. You'll cool that down. You'll throw that into your blender with a couple, with a couple leaves of basil and some different cannabis to fill whatever you want. And boom, blitz that. And it is, and if you want to thin it out and add a little bit of water, you can do so. And it is the most, and obviously you always season everything as you go and taste as you go and adjust accordingly. But that is the greatest tomato sauce. Now, what can I do with that? Absolutely everything. I can put that in a lasagna.

Jordan Wagman (00:32:49) - I can make a pasta, I can make a tomato vette. I could reduce that and make a tomato jam. I could do 1,000,001, I could make a, a pan cotta a dessert from that if I chose to. But that's the basis. So that's one. The other one is pesto by far and away. Um, now I don't use, because I am, all of my food, all of my experiences, my 10 cho experiences are all gluten, dairy, and refined sugar. So I always am, uh, you know, certainly if someone has dietary restrictions, I satisfy those easily. But I don't put nuts where I can avoid. So I will add toasted hemp seeds to my pesto instead, but it's really just olive oil, little bit of garlic basil as the base. And then if I've got scallions, chives, whatever's there, even some kale, I'll throw that in. And that's my pesto.

Jordan Wagman (00:33:36) - And here's where you use pesto, okay? And this is the infused version. So you're gonna blitz that up with a little bit of cannabis oil, okay? And it's going to stay emulsified. And if it doesn't, you can always blitz it up before you use it again. But here's where you use that. You take that pasta that you've cooked, and you don't need to put it on the sa tape, and you can put all that in a bowl. You want Parmesan cheese in there, throw that, throw a tablespoon, right? You've al already got it measured out. You know how much you put in there, you know how much you're yielding, divided by the total number of portions you plan on serving. And that's the yield per serving size, right? It's really simple math. Um, but you put whatever that serving size into a bowl and you toss that pasta in and boom, put it on the plate.

Jordan Wagman (00:34:19) - You know, there's a number of different ways I'm gonna roast cauliflower. Here's my favorite thing to do. I roast cauliflower. And when that cauliflower is still hot and it's got some salt and pepper and all those crispy little black bits on, they're, they're amazing. I will toss my pesto right on top of that. And a little bit of coconut vinegar. It is one of the greatest flavors in the world. So pesto is my go-to, to deglaze pans, to, you know, as, as a garnish on plates. But pesto and tomato sauce, by far and away are on every single one of the menus that I've served over the last eight years to a decade.

Marge (00:34:57) - I love those answers too, because they are just, it's not the typical, you know, sweet stuff that people think of when they think of edibles. And it just shows how versatile it is as, uh, an ingredient and having a tomato sauce recipe that you can use. And the pesto too, like you said, pesto is wonderful as a, as an ingredient for sandwiches and all kinds of things. So that's, uh, I love that. Now, you mentioned that you like to pair some of your cannabis with the flir profile of the dishes. Are you doing like a decarb or when you're making your oils, are you making your own infusions typically or do you normally buy them?

Jordan Wagman (00:35:32) - Never. I will never do it. And the reason is, is, is what I call a repeatable experience. So it's what I referred to earlier. If you enjoyed that experience and you say, okay, chef, that was great. How much was in that? Hmm, I don't know. That doesn't work for my clients. They pay a lot of money to my food and I want them to come back a second time. Right? Right. And they do come back another time. So I want them to come back and know exactly what to expect because I can tell them the, and, and it's not to be clear, my experiences over 10 courses in three or four hours are not about getting you high. That's not the purpose of my experiences. It's to educate people on what cannabis food and beverage can be. And that is combining, listen, let's, let's all, let's all be honest.

Jordan Wagman (00:36:20) - Forget cannabis and terpenes for a moment. If you have a great group of friends around a table and the food's pretty good and the service is good, you've had a great night. Now combine the entourage effect of cannabis, right? Different cannabinoids in their acid form. You know what different, you know, decarb, cannabinoids, lots of terpenes. Like, think about what that creates, and that's that I, you come to my experience and it's like a big hug. That's what this is. And so it's really all about creating a repeatable experience. And for me, that is, I will purchase my cannabis, I will know exactly how much is in it. And I will tell in every course, there are three milligrams in my vegan truffles. There are two milligrams in each portion of my fruit, leather, whatever that what, whatever that cannabis component is, I will always tell them.

Jordan Wagman (00:37:16) - And then if they want it at the end of the night, they have access to it. But generally speaking, you're only gonna get 10 to 15 milligrams, 15 milligrams of THC over three or four hours. But that's also combined with a hundred plus milligrams of T H C A C B D C B D A C B G, you know, like lots of terpenes, right? So I love to take a napkin better than a Kleenex, but a napkin that I have on my tables for my guests. And I'll dab some different TURPs onto the napkin indiv, like between courses. And that will actually be the cannabis component for the next dish where the, the actual dish doesn't have cannabis in it or a terpene, but it's on the napkin, right? So it's different ways of getting that experience into that guest.

Marge (00:38:07) - So you mentioned these experiences that you're having these warm hugs, which sounds lovely. Can you talk a bit more about these experiences, like a, a 10 course meal? Sounds incredible.

Jordan Wagman (00:38:17) - Yeah, I've hosted, um, I mean Forbes Magazine to Wild and Tea, God, and I mean, I could go on and on about the LPs that have been here and the law firms that have been here, but I've hosted most of, you know, the LPs. Um, not most that's a lie, but certainly a lot of the big ones and the ones that, you know, are spending the money to do this. Um, yeah, I, I offer 10 course experiences and this is all about, as I said, you know, showing people what cannabis food and beverage can be, where I will pair over the course of 10 courses, different, uh, cocktails as well, which are either terpene forward or cannabis infused beverages. Never alcohol. I I never, you know, alcohol's not a part of my offering. Um, and I encourage people not to really drink alcohol when they're having these experiences, but to each their own. Um, but they're food first experiences, period. They're food first. And so I've had, you know, very, this is my home, um, you know, this is actually the, my dining room for another two months. Two more parties, three more parties, three more parties, mm-hmm. . And then I've sold the house and I'm moving up to Muskoka. I'm going to recreate this on a lake somewhere. Oh,

Marge (00:39:31) - Lovely.

Jordan Wagman (00:39:32) - Yeah. So that's what I'm gonna do is just continue offering these experiences both infused and non, and they're 10 courses that are based on seasonality. Um, it's all, you know, we talk about farm to table. I tell the stories about the farmers as much as I tell the stories about different cana, uh, different, you know, cannabis that's in the, the, uh, the food stuff, but their food first experiences, I pride myself on, um, being a pretty good cook. And so , I also love to surprise people when they say, well, wait a second, there's no gluten dairy or refined sugar in anything. Like, what are we eating? And the truth is, is that no one's ever turned to me, ever and and said, you know, chef, I, I really love the meal, but I wish there was more gluten in it, or I wish there was more refined sugar in it. You know? Right. No one's ever said that to me. They just say, that was one of the greatest experiences in my life, and that's what I like to curate, and that's why I keep doing what I'm doing because it isn't for any other reason than the love of the game.

Marge (00:40:33) - Right. So as an adjunct to that, then, you've been working, having these experiences for quite some time. It sounds like you've hosted some pretty amazing dinners. Where do you see the edibles industry evolving, or how do you see it moving forward?

Jordan Wagman (00:40:49) - Yeah, I mean, listen, so I, I'd be remiss if I didn't. So if I didn't mention, you know, I now have, and the last couple years has been about me figuring out what my play is in this space. I, I'm an American citizen as well as Canadian, so I wanted to penetrate the US in addition to, you know, what's been accomplished here in Canada. Um, I ha white papered something called the Cannabis Food and Beverage Conference. And I have a good friend, Jamie Pearson, who used to be the CEO O of Bang chocolate, and she left. And she's one of the biggest superstars. And by that I mean one of the greatest humans in my life in cannabis, period, non like, just period. She's just a great human and, and become a great sounding board for me. And she said, Jordan, this is a really good idea.

Jordan Wagman (00:41:47) - I really think you need to pitch this to lift. And so I did. And Lindsay Roberts is someone who I fell in love with. She is just an absolute rockstar of a human and in business, and she's running lift events now. And so I ended up giving, you know, pitching the idea to Lindsay and she loved it. And so you asked me the future, the future is, the future is us. The future is what we're doing. The future is Ed, educating people on what cannabis food and beverage can be. So through this, we've rebranded this new conference called Taste at Lyft, cannabis Food and Beverage Experience. And part of my responsibility now as the director of Cannabis Food and Beverage Growth globally is look, is curating this content both in Toronto, in San Francisco at the f inaugural Taste Event and August 4th, and then, you know, and then in Vancouver in January. And so it's really exciting. The future is cannabis, food and beverage. That is the future of cannabis. It has to be. Why, why do you, what, why, why would somebody say something is because we've already serviced the stoners

Marge (00:43:05) - , right?

Jordan Wagman (00:43:06) - What's next? We've already serviced them and you know what they're doing? They're buying pot on the black market. I am, I'm also going to the dispensary and I'm supporting those that I absolutely love. And there's some brands that I do love, but I'm still buying on the black market. And, and I, you know, and, and like, we need to convince people to and, and new people to cannabis. And that is the opportunity. And the opportunity is through food and beverage. And so what's the opportunity? It's to really be at the forefront of medical, it's at the forefront of, of education when it comes to cannabis to, you know, we talk about destigmatizing, you know, that word is often used, but let me assure you that, you know, we are, you and I and all of our brothers and sisters and all of the people in this entire space.

Jordan Wagman (00:43:58) - We are no longer spicoli getting out of the VW bug. You know, we aren't, you know, the stoners pot house, potheads and burnouts. As a matter of fact, we're all business professionals, lawyers, doctors, and successful in our own right. We just have disposable income now to spend on cannabis to help solve for needs states. And, you know, who else wants it are freaking parents because they see that, wow, Jordan, you know, that cannabis stuff, Hey, Jordan, by the way, did you gimme the gummies, dad? I haven't had a chance. Da, but, but I did get to all those oils that I ordered that were like $1,500 and like, you know, and are saving your life. And so, you know, the man's, the man is just way healthier. Yes. Conventional medicine has helped his brain tumor, but so in part has cannabis. He couldn't sleep. He takes like 500 milligrams of C b n every single day. The guy sleeps like he's 16 years old.

Marge (00:44:50) - Wow. And that's such an important piece for anybody's health journey, is having adequate sleep. And it's such a, it's so hard for so many people as well.

Jordan Wagman (00:44:59) - Absolutely. Absolutely. So, you know, again, what's the future? The future of cannabis is food and beverage. That's how I love

Marge (00:45:07) - Hearing that. Cause as an edibles lover, like that's my preferred way to consume cannabis, that makes me really excited. And it makes sense to me as well, because people already love food. And so it's a natural extension to add this super food ingredient to the food that they're consuming, especially in a beautiful environment in a 10 course meal, a warm hug, like all those things you're talking about. So I guess the one thing I'd be curious about is, do you think Canada in particular will catch up at any point when it comes to the tourism consumption lounges? I see so much cool shit going on in the states, and we just don't have that here yet.

Jordan Wagman (00:45:46) - So I want to just add to your point, I call it familiar ways to consume. That's what they're looking for. They're looking for familiar ways. They're not like they, they, they're used to drinking something or eating a chocolate, right? So it's familiar to them. Do I think Canada is gonna catch up? You want my honest opinion? Canada's a leader in this space. We have been, we continue to be, the moment you get on a plane and you leave this continent, or you leave this country, you are considered a global thought leader. If you've done something that others haven't, if you accomplished something in this space that you should be proud of, that, that, that, then you're a difference maker. And, and you're different than, you know, most people in the, in, in the world because it's not legal in most places. And so mm-hmm. , you know, you, you're really the envy of a, a lot of, you know, people, but it's also, you are, you're a global thought leader.

Jordan Wagman (00:46:36) - You have something to add. So I believe we are global thought leaders here. Do I believe that tourism is going to take off? Yes, I do. I do believe that there is time, there is perspective, like in everything. It's hard to see the trees through the forest right now, especially when you have people who have blinders on, or let me say it differently. Especially when you have people who are blind. So it's hard to see the priest through the fourth, especially when you can't see, right? Right. And so the, the, you know, the, the really, the, the, the parallel I'm drawing here is that those that are making the rules for us, for us, um, really need to understand what we're trying to accomplish here. And the limitations that are in place prevent us from growing cannabis properly. And so what I will tell you very clearly is, as much as I believe in the opportunity to create products for my mom and my dad and their, their, you know, their peers, you know what they're not gonna do ever. They're not gonna go into a dispensary to buy whatever products I suggest that they buy. George, will you go do it for us? Maybe they'll order it. They will not go to a dispensary to do that. So we need to figure out a way to get product to them where they are not, where they're not right. Mm-hmm. where they're not is in a dispensary. Right. So yeah, I mean, I could go on and on about that, but

Marge (00:47:59) - Right. So do you think that the fact that they don't go in the, into dispensaries, because my dad has gone in a couple times, which still boggles by mind sometimes how far he's come, but, um, is it just the sort of perceived conception of what a dispensary is and who is going to be servicing them when they walk in there? It's

Jordan Wagman (00:48:18) - The latter, not the former. It's the latter. It's the ladder. So, so who's going to service now? Now I spend a lot of time and energy talking about the importance of bud tenders. I spend a lot of time and energy talking to bud tenders and propping up bud tenders and, and realizing that the, you know, the importance of bud tenders in this space as the conduit to the consumer, I mean mm-hmm. , I appreciate that they're also underappreciated, undervalued and undereducated. Like it's just, you know, like they're the line cooks of the cannabis industry. And if they don't like what's going on in this, you know, in this one retailer, they'll go to that next, you know, restaurant down the street, for example, right? Mm-hmm. , there's the lion cooks of the industry. So yeah, I think it's the latter where my parents aren't gonna go in and, and be serviced by someone who are not educated in the same way that their son is. And I'm not suggesting everyone needs to be a thought leader to, to, to be educated, but at the very least, you need to have people in a place where, in place where they can be educated. Now, that's not to say bud tenders aren't out there educating, there are some incredible experiences out there. Do you know what they're not allowed to do? Educate us, right?

Marge (00:49:36) - Talk about it. Yeah. You're not even

Jordan Wagman (00:49:38) - Allowed to educate us. Hey, you know, I, I'm having a problem. Like, so they're not allowed to say, well, if you, you know, if you're having problems sleeping, I would suggest like, we can't even have the conversations that we want people to have. So it's the latter. It's that they're not going into the dispensary because they, they don't even know who to talk to and what questions to ask if they did.

Marge (00:49:59) - Right. And I love that you mentioned that too. I used to work in a dispensary and I found that you were really limited by what you could say. Unless you had personal anecdotal experience with something, then maybe you could sort of get around talking about certain things. But seniors in particular were some of my favorite customers because they were curious and they listened to what you had to say, and they weren't coming in just looking for the highest potency weed in the shop. And they, they wanted to learn. And yet a lot of the times you couldn't really share what you knew you could share because there's legalities and all these things, but they were definitely kind of curious for sure. So, hundred

Jordan Wagman (00:50:37) - Percent I agree with you. Yeah.

Marge (00:50:39) - Yeah. Now you have a podcast called In the Weeds, and you bring together professionals from the culinary health and wellness cannabis industries. Can you share with me a memorable moment or story that you've had from the podcast so far?

Jordan Wagman (00:50:58) - I, while we're talking, Aaron Alman called me, Aaron Alman is a young man who now has, well, I'll tell the story first. So I've been following him. He had about 3,300, forget, 3,300 followers. The guy was one of the best cooks I've ever seen. And I told him, in no uncertain terms, you are going to blow up. And he had one recipe blow up and that he was been offered, you know, to be on next level chef. And he's getting cookbook offers, like the guy's got over a hundred thousand followers now and following 300 people. Like he is an absolute superstar. And when he came on the show and he shared with me, and, and, and mental health again, is very close to my heart and something that I love talking about, I don't believe in, I love that, you know, we have the bell, let's Talk day, but I, I, I prefer to talk about mental health 365.

Jordan Wagman (00:51:56) - Um, and he came on the show and, and we, I, I wasn't expecting the story where he was addicted to alcohol, um, at a very young age, dropped out of university to go get help, and was so in tune with himself and, and just so humble. It was one of the most, one of, and I, and there's many, many, many examples, but, but one of the most memorable, I I also had the opportunity to interview Michael Smith, who's, you know, Canadian culinary icon who, you know, said to me, and I quote, work-life balance, Jordan, no such thing. Life comes first,

Marge (00:52:41) - Right?

Jordan Wagman (00:52:42) - Our chef. Wow. Wow. Life comes first, life comes first.

Marge (00:52:50) - And it's interesting you mentioned that, cuz that kind of circles back to what you were talking about at the beginning of our conversation, which is, um, having your health and you were working, working, working, and then your health was compromised. And I feel like life and health are kind of intertwined. And if you're working all the time, you can't really concentrate on your health, wellness, life, living

Jordan Wagman (00:53:12) - Balance. Right? It's, it's, it's just balance. And, you know, and I, I, I really just, I believe wholeheartedly in, in balance, balance of education, balance of, of health, just balance of knowledge and, and, and differing opinions to, to gather the information to make an informed decision. And, and that's when we talk about, you know, cannabis, food and beverage, it's not, I hate the Jordan show. Like the Jordan show is done. I'm 51 years old. My job, my job now is to create my legacy. My legacy is not the number of books that I've written or shows or podcasts. The legacy is how many people can I positively impact? And, you know, I can do that with more if I'm actually mentoring. And so that's what I do. And so when you talk about, and, and so selfishly I'm gonna, you know, sort of drop, you know, so we have June, what is it, June 1st to third in Toronto?

Jordan Wagman (00:54:06) - Mm-hmm. , right? Mm-hmm. . So we're curating now because Lyft acquired this opportunity, this food and beverage conference from me now. We're curating all this food and beverage content in Toronto. Barry Smith, my colleague, created this Diners Club. So you have Chef Roma Aval. So let's, let's break it down for a sec. Roma Aval, yes. We're gonna write a cookbook together in the near future. Yes, he's handsome as can be. , he is one of the most, and I say this, Ron McKinley, the chef of Canoe and uh, and Romaine Aval are two of the most talented chefs in my entire network. Romaine Aval is the most talented when it comes to all around culinary skills. And then he called me and I've been, you know, we've became, became friends and, you know, we've developed a nice relationship and he said, chef, I want to cook with cannabis.

Jordan Wagman (00:55:06) - What's your connection to the plant? Romaine? He said, chef, you are my connection to mm-hmm because I've seen a, what it's done for you, be what you've done for it and see what I can now do with what you've already created to take it to the next level to make it mishk quality cuisine with cannabis. That's just one person presenting with me. And he and I are actually doing a demo in Toronto. You have chefs like Erica and Josh Belnik have you, like if you don't, if you don't know who they are, Erica won Top Chef Canada. Her husband Josh was runner up in Top Chef Canada, , the two of them, cannabis and have both cooked with me as Chef Romaine have, we've cooked together and you know, they are superstars. You have Matthew Ravens Croft, who's doing a culinary, you know, we've got Pat Newton who's coming in here.

Jordan Wagman (00:56:02) - We've got really amazing cus at, you know, that are, that are in this, we've got the, you know, a love here, the Cana, we've got, um, you know, my friend from, from bc, like we've got so many Connor, like, so many incredible people. And so what's my point? My point is that we talk about destigmatizing the cannabis plant. How else are we going to do that? Besides through food and beverage, we mourn over food. We celebrate over food, we do business over food. We talk about boyfriends over food and girlfriends over food. And we talk about people that we hate over food and people that have disappointed us and people that we love. This is food. It bonds us all. It makes sense that those leading the charge in culinary and beverage are actually the ones who are leading that de-stigmatization conversation. And that's what we're starting in Toronto and that's what we're gonna finish with in August, or at least continue with in August at the first taste, uh, taste of Lyft cannabis food and beverage experience in San Francisco, August 4th. So we're really excited and

Marge (00:57:09) - It's really exciting. I was looking at the conference schedule for Lyft coming up and there are so many things going on with food and beverage that was like, this is the conference for me. I'm really excited to be going. And anybody who has any interest, I mean this year I feel like it just sort of elevates the whole conference on a whole new level because they're just taking this focus. And you're right, cannabis people connect through food and they connect through cannabis and you marry the two together and it's beautiful, right? It's

Jordan Wagman (00:57:35) - Uh, it puts a smile on your face and makes you wanna see showdowns one day go dance class.

Marge (00:57:45) - Amazing. Now is there anything that you are working on right now that you're excited about? And I think you did mention earlier that you're working on a book. So,

Jordan Wagman (00:57:55) - Yeah, I mean, thank you. I, I'll tell you, you know, there's a couple things. Um, first and foremost is what I've talked about with Lyft because, you know, they've, they're really looking to change the cannabis food and beverage conversation. And so at the top of what I'm doing, I couldn't be more excited for those conversations. My new book called Will, how I Found My Health Through Food is Coming Out. It's my sixth book. I'm really, really, really excited about this. It's autobiographical for a year of my life. I wrote a blog. I released it every week with a recipe. And the blogs were all about mental health. My coming of age was psoriasis and, and you know, with my wife and family and, and trials and tribulations and of course cannabis and eating healthy. And so I have put together this book, which is, are all my recipes, all my pictures as well and all my stories, um, which are coming out God willing in the next, you know, two months it should be done. But the reason is because I'm like a shoemaker right now. Um, batty the Golden Gully, if you don't follow him, you should. He is one of the greatest young, uh, young people, uh, content creators on social media. The guy's got like over 7 million followers globally and we're writing a new book together for Random House. Wow. So that one's coming out. Uh, 2024, chef Roma, Avril and I are writing a new cookbook, which if you would like, I will, well, maybe, I don't know, should I tease out? Should

Marge (00:59:27) - I,

Jordan Wagman (00:59:28) - , should I tease this out? Alright, you ready? So it's called, it's called Twice Baked.

Marge (00:59:37) - Oh, lovely.

Jordan Wagman (00:59:38) - Yeah, it's called Twice Baked. And, uh, chef Romeo Avril is going to change the game when it comes to, uh, culinary cannabis cookbooks. So, you know, we got a lot of stuff on the go. Um, again, I'm just excited to be having conversations about food and beverage in this space and I feel humbled that I get the opportunity to be with you. You're really good at what you do.

Marge (01:00:01) - Oh, I thank you. I love to hear that. Cause I've been doing it for a while. I, I probably cringe a little bit at, you know, what it started sounded like in the beginning, but everybody does, right. So yeah. And I just, we all,

Jordan Wagman (01:00:12) - We all, we all evolve in every

Marge (01:00:14) - Somewhere. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I'm always humbled myself just by, I mean, this is a pretty small show on my little corner of the internet. I'm out here in Peterborough. I don't know if you know where that is, but it's about an hour and a half from Toronto. But, uh, I'm always humbled by the people who say, yes, I would love to come on your show and talk about edibles and talk about weed, because that just makes me think how great the cannabis community is. And the people I've met through this has been amazing. And I'm really happy to share your work. And a lot of the things you were talking about are gonna end up in the show notes, cuz there was, I'm writing all these notes, but for anybody listening there will be show notes. I'm sure there'll be lengthy. Um, just a couple more questions for you, Jordan, then I'll let you go. But what would surprise people about you?

Jordan Wagman (01:01:02) - That I cry at long distance commercials ,

Marge (01:01:05) - That

Jordan Wagman (01:01:06) - I, I am, I am, I don't know, like I, I don't know. I I I had to choose between music and food or so I thought for a long time I love music. I, um, I used to punch walls when I was very young and instead I, I, I was taught how to play guitar. So for my, you know, when I got angry, I did something constructive like play music and sing. Um, so yeah, I'm a singer and I love playing music, so I don't know if that's a little tidbit, but I'm a lover. Like I, that's just who I am. I cry at, you know, I, I love friends, watching friends with my daughter more than anything. You know, I've seen every episode a thousand times. I can, you know, go on and on about friends and, you know, hey, it's a moo point, right?

Jordan Wagman (01:01:55) - It's like a cow's opinion. It doesn't matter. It says Joey Tri . Um, you know, like I, I'm, I'm just a lover. I, I really hate, I hate sadness, I hate anger. And I believe that kindness is a superpower. And I say that to anyone who will listen. That kindness can change people's lives. And I firmly believe that. And and truly, if, you know, if you wanna know anything about me, it's that I do have a superpower and I was born with it. It's the same one my children have and the same one, we're all born with the opportunity and the ability to change people's lives with one simple gesture. Buy them a coffee, do something nice for them, put a smile on their face. Be selfless. It really does change people's lives, whether you know it or not, whether they ever tell you or not, you've impacted that. Mm-hmm.

Marge (01:02:41) - ,

Jordan Wagman (01:02:42) - That's

Marge (01:02:42) - Likely. Yeah, that's so true. And I'm sure that it shines through in all your cooking as well. I can just tell just, just by having this conversation today, you made the right choice, I think with thank you, with going with cooking. So , thank

Jordan Wagman (01:02:52) - You. I appreciate it.

Marge (01:02:54) - Finally, I know you're going to be at Lyft in a couple weekends. Uh, it sounds like you're going to be at this Lyft event in San Francisco as well coming up later in the year. Where else can people find you?

Jordan Wagman (01:03:06) - Yeah, I mean, if you ever wanna work together, you can certainly find me everywhere on social. It's Chef Jordan Wagman. Um, you know, my email is easy. It's chef Jordan Jordan wagman.com. But I, I love working with people and I always say this on every interview, even in my own shows, that my dms are always open, I am always available. So if, you know, if somebody wants to talk about mental health or they want to talk about food, whatever it is they wanna talk about, I am available. I am always, I try to be responsive, but be patient with me and, but they can reach me anywhere and I will always respond in time.

Marge (01:03:40) - Beautiful. So I'll make sure I link to all that in the show notes as well. And if anybody has any questions for you on any of these subjects, then they can reach out to you. Jordan, I just wanna say thank you so much for your time today. You are very generous with sitting down to speak with me and I hope Lyft goes off without any issues and hopefully we'll meet up while meet up there.

Jordan Wagman (01:03:59) - I look forward to it. Thank you for your time.

Marge (01:04:02) - I'm looking forward to lifting Co this year in large part because Chef Jordan is infusing the conference with a whole lot of food and beverage content. But if you aren't in Toronto or San Francisco or Vancouver this year, you can still find links to his website, socials and cookbooks and more in the show notes. Plus he shared with me one of his favorite recipes. So you'll have that to look forward to for next week's episode. As always, please share this, this episode with someone that you think would enjoy it. You can always reach out to me via email or the podcast hotline, or you can find me over on Instagram and stay up to date with news events and giveaways with the newsletter. And you can sign up for that via my website or my link, drew, depending on where you're listening. In any case, I hope you enjoyed this conversation and until next week, my friends stay high.