Building Safe Consumption Spaces with Allison Benedict

Margaret 00:00:05 Welcome friends to episode 268. Today I am joined by Allison of Paws Consumption. Welcome to Bite Me, the show about edibles where I help you take control of your high life. I'm your host and Certified Ganjier Margaret and I love helping cooks make safe and effective edibles at home. I'm so glad you're here. Greetings, friends. Welcome back. And I'm glad you're joining me today. And thank you for sharing your time and attention with me. I think you're going to really enjoy this conversation that I had with Allison of Pause Consumption. Allison has been in the cannabis industry for over ten years in the Arizona market, and she came to cannabis after a major accident had a pretty big impact in her life. She later founded Pause Consumption with the intention of building community, educating, reducing stigma and giving back, effectively creating a curious collective of individuals. What is not to love about that mindset? So without me further telling the story for Allison, please enjoy this wonderful conversation with Allison. Of pause consumption. All right everyone, I am really happy to be joined today with Allison of Pause Consumption Lounges, and I was hoping, Allison, you could just start out by introducing yourself to the listeners of Bite Me and tell us a little bit about what it is that you do.

Allison 00:01:40 Yeah. Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I'm Allison Benedict, and I am the founder of Pause Consumption, and I have been in the cannabis industry for just over ten years now. and I really started, being interested in the industry and joining so long ago here in the Arizona market, because I personally found a lot of relief and a lot of health benefits from the plant. After I personally had a really major accident where I broke my back in three places, and that the plant really helped me to manage my pain and to manage my recovery as I was in college at the time. And I really needed to be focused on the schoolwork that I was doing. And the originally they had prescribed me some opioids that I really did not like, and it only only ended up taking them about two times before I realized this was not for me, and I needed to find an alternative. And so really driven by that passion for the healing powers, I jumped two feet into the industry when it kicked off here in the early medical days.

Allison 00:02:56 and I took my first job in the industry as a second job. I was teaching as a college professor at Northern Arizona University, and I wanted to make some extra cash on the side. So I took a job as a trimmer, which is not always everyone's like story and how they start out. And really, from there I just worked my way into new opportunities. The company I was trimming for decided they wanted to open up a lab, and during my undergrad I had done a lot of research working in fungal and mycology laboratories, which require really, really high standards of cleanliness and lab practices. So I was able to apply that to that experience. Enable was then to open up that lab with them, and that was my first foray really into product development and brand development. And really from there, I was able to join a few other companies after that time, and worked in everything from operations to supply chain and most recently working in the marketing field under brand development and product development.

Margaret 00:04:06 Wow. So that's a really varied way to get into cannabis, which is there's so much that we could talk about.

Margaret 00:04:13 the one point that you mentioned about the opioids, that's I love that you use the plant as an alternative, because I've known so many people in my own inner circle that have been prescribed opioids, and it has not ended well for them. and it's such a common story that getting out the information of how cannabis can be a real alternative to that is really important. So I can imagine that that's really driving a lot of the work that you're doing right now. moving on to becoming a trimmer, that's also probably kind of unusual, but.

Margaret 00:04:46 I.

Margaret 00:04:46 Think that's really cool. So you've done all these really interesting things. How did you get into creating this education movement with pause consumption?

Allison 00:04:55 Yeah. I really wanted to, take the experience that I had and make sure that it was in a place where people could access it and to come without judgment if they were looking at the plant, maybe even for the first time. There's a lot of great information and resources out there. If you're already a lover of a plant, and we we do provide that to those people who want to go deeper and continue to learn more.

Allison 00:05:21 But we do focus a lot on those newer or returning consumers, maybe people who had the the plant as part of their life when they were younger or many, many years ago. And it has changed so much through the breeding and the genetic programs and also just the technology and the proficiency of growers and extractors. And so knowing that, that it's not maybe even what they knew before, how do we provide a place where people can consciously and intentionally use the plant and to learn more and to feel really safe in doing so. and a big part of the education that we also wanted to spread is that while we have really incredible medical and adult use programs all around the country and now the world, that actually consuming the plant in its many different forms is not often legal in those states that have those programs. And so advocating for the rights of the individuals who are going and legally possessing this product and acquiring it through legal means, then advocating for the next step and evolution in the industry, which is the legalization of consumption on par with possession.

Margaret 00:06:35 Right. I love that too, because I'm in Canada and we have had legalization now for over five years, and we still don't have consumption lounges. And I think that's a real shame and a missed opportunity for a lot of different reasons. A lot of people talk about consumption lounges in Canada in terms of the potential for tourism, but I love how you are turning it into an opportunity to educate people who are, you know, perhaps like you said, the last time they were consuming cannabis, it was a very different world and things have changed a lot. Like just when you think about even in the edible space that I'm particularly interested in, the number of beverages you can even buy in the market now that didn't even exist, like, you know, ten years ago, let alone 40 years ago when someone was maybe smoking as a, you know, as a kid or something. So can you tell me a bit more about how pause approaches consumption or, sorry, cannabis education and maybe the specific aspects of cannabis that you believe are like the most important for people to understand.

Allison 00:07:35 Yeah. So one of the ways that we do it is we publish online guides that are free to download there on our website, Paws Consumption lounge.com. And we, you know, really start out with a specific topic. And then you can go deeper and deeper into that topic. For example, we have a dosing guide and it talks about every type of product that you can legally possess and all the different types of infusion technologies that you might find within those products. Because distillate is not created equal to so or to a live resin or resin product. And so there's also a ton of kind of language around the cannabis industry that if you're not familiar with it, it all just is Greek. You don't even know what these words mean. And so not just explaining what you're likely to feel, but also what the actual terms are, what they mean, and kind of providing that dictionary or even a, you know, the source of sense of like this means this, and this also means that and kind of like creating the connections that happen through the language of cannabis.

Allison 00:08:45 And so breaking it down of each of those kind of dosing methods, what an introductory dose looks like when you're smoking flower versus vaping versus taking an edible and like how to even especially with edibles because I think everyone has a horror story with edibles because it is so easy to overdose yourself. especially if something tastes really good. but, you know, breaking down what a label is going to look like and how to read that. you know, so we do that in that dosing guide. We also have, a guide that's called uncomplicated cannabis, where we, you know, really break down all the cannabinoids, what each of them is likely to help you with or could help make you feel, you know CBN for sleep for example CBG and CBC for inflammation. And so kind of again going into those details whatever level that person really wants to. And it's available to them online. and then in our consumption events that we host, we always have an education aspect to that. in the past, some of our events have included speaking sessions where we have people who are coming and helping to do introductory lessons, to different consumption methods, or even talking about different aspects of the industry, which might be, you know, not always the flashy, shiny things, but are still really important.

Allison 00:10:13 Like we did a whole session on like insurance and we did sessions around like renters rights. and so, yeah, those are just some of the ways that we approach it, but we constantly are publishing things online, both on our website and our social media channels, to kind of break it down into bite sized pieces for people.

Margaret 00:10:34 And I love that because also, I mean, you take it for granted sometimes when you've been working in the cannabis spaces for a long time and then somebody new coming in, there is a whole lingo and language around cannabis that the newcomer just isn't going to understand. And some of those nuances are important. Like you mentioned, I was talking to a guy last week who just casually edibles came up in conversation, and his first time taking them a long time ago was horrible. And he's just like, I am never going there ever again. And that's just such a shame because, I mean, I find so much joy through them. I know a lot of people who find them so helpful, but he was scared off forever.

Margaret 00:11:13 And so that's a that's a pretty big deal.

Allison 00:11:16 It happens to so many people. And for me with the education that we're doing is how do we prevent those experiences from happening. So that way people don't have to walk themselves back from a place of fear, but we can always be approaching it from that place of curiosity and informed again, kind of conscious consumption. We encourage a lot of like journaling, you know, how are you feeling when you do certain things? What is your mindset also even going into a consumption experience? Because that is going to play a huge factor into how you're feeling, right?

Margaret 00:11:49 That's like the set and setting in the lot of respects that we talk about often. And when it comes to psychedelic mushrooms, perhaps, but that lends itself beautifully as well to the cannabis experience, because when you consume cannabis at home, it's going to be a lot different than if you're going to a concert or something. Absolutely certain.

Margaret 00:12:08 Yeah, yeah.

Allison 00:12:09 And consuming it by yourself for the first time after you just had a full brain dump from, like, a bud tender at a dispensary.

Allison 00:12:16 And you remember, like, a fraction of what they told you. Yeah, you're probably going to be really nervous and that's going to play a huge factor.

Margaret 00:12:24 Yeah.

Margaret 00:12:24 So you mentioned curiosity. I understand that pause is driven by curiosity, social justice and sustainability. Can you talk about these values and how they influence your approach to education and the events that you're hosting?

Allison 00:12:37 Absolutely. I mean, curiosity, just starting with that. I think being a teacher and an educator in my past and a life learner, like I approach my life like that, and it really has bled over into everything that we're doing. With pause is how do we remain curious? The cannabis industry is still really novice and new, and the plant is still being discovered and researched. And so, you know, we never take for granted that we know everything. And then really imparting that upon the people who participate in our events or engage with our content and saying, you know, how do we remain constantly aware? Because it also is true.

Allison 00:13:15 If you are a avid consumer and you're consuming all the time, you can become kind of unconscious to your consumption and not really understanding why you continue to consume or why you're choosing to at certain times. So how do you remain curious even about yourself and your relationship with the plant and social justice? I mean, it is tantamount to the entire industry. If it wasn't for, you know, the way that it became illegal and how it now has become more and more legalized. there is a ton of individuals and communities that were negatively impacted that by that very disproportionately. And those are communities of color, and often the the poor and the disenfranchised. And so a lot of who has currently benefited from the industry as we know it today is not those people. And so how do we use the success and the potential of the future of the industry to make sure that we're going back and saying, hey, we have some work we need to do to right those wrongs and to make sure that everyone, especially those that were most negatively impacted by, prohibition, that they have an opportunity to take part in this success directly.

Allison 00:14:40 and and again, because consumption is still illegal in so many places. You can still be prosecuted for that. again, going back to renters rights. This is a renters economy more than ever. And so how do we protect people who are not private property owners or don't have access to private property? And that's also why we advocate for consumption lounges as that safe, legal place for people to consume this plant. just like you would at a bar, for example. And, sustainability, it really goes hand in hand with it being a plant. If there is no natural world and we're not protecting that, then there is no cannabis industry. There is no cannabis plant in. You know, how we can continue to benefit from the healing powers of the plant is by, you know, creating a sustainable, scalable, you know, long term industry that respects and, you know, protects the origins of the plant and the the larger Earth, right?

Margaret 00:15:44 Those are all beautiful values to be espousing. So I commend you on that because you also mentioned the renter's market.

Margaret 00:15:50 It's very similar up here in Canada to not everybody has a backyard they can sit in to like smoke a joint after work or something like that. A lot of people are living in spaces where they're close to other people. They don't have balconies. So where do you go if you can't smoke in your apartment or something and not having those safe spaces to go to? That really limits what you can do and puts you at potential risk, like you mentioned. So the curiosity piece too, I think is so valuable because lifelong learning, I mean, the plant was prohibited for 100 years, and that really slowed down the research, of course. So we are still learning so much. But I'm curious about this stigmatization or stigma that you see, because even though you're working in education, I'm in a space where it's been legal for so long, but there's still so much stigma around the plant. How do you see and deal with that at Paws.

Allison 00:16:43 Yeah, I mean, it it has. I will say it has gotten a lot better in the decade that I've been in the industry.

Allison 00:16:52 I no longer have people who, when they find out what I do, you know, scream me down in the street or anything. That definitely happened in the beginning. Wow. I mean, people used to get really violently angry, you know, how could you think that this is a good thing? I think some of that mentality has gone away, and a lot of that does come from education and also from legalization. and I think that, you know, for us, how do we continue that? Because it's still true, unfortunately, that if you are consuming in a public space, especially if you are consuming flour or something that has a more pungent cannabis direct smell, or if you go into a place smelling of cannabis, you are still going to get those sideways looks or they're going to ask you to leave. And that's why it's really, really important that we have these legal spaces to consume the plant where people who are there want to be there, they want to be around the plant and there.

Allison 00:17:53 We're not necessarily imparting our desires on people who don't want that. And I think that helps with the stigmatization, because just like, you know, people who don't drink aren't going to go to bars, people who don't consume cannabis are not likely to go to consumption lounges. So that's great for everyone. and I think really just understanding that the stoner archetype is untrue and that there are people who are very professional. really our our audience is a group of mostly the like, 30 to 60 year old professionals. And we are showing that people who are, you know, holding down incredible leadership positions and people who don't necessarily fit this mold of what you think of as a cannabis consumer are consumers, and they're actually all around you, and they're not just what you've been told through propaganda. So I think just showing up professionally, consuming responsibly, and having events like we do where people are safe, that just helps to further normalize these types of things, even going on in our communities.

Margaret 00:19:08 Right. And the normalization is key.

Margaret 00:19:10 And I love that you mentioned that the the demographic, if you will, of the people attending your lounge and your events are 30 to 60, because most people who have that stoner stereotype in mind would imagine a very different crowd and 30 to 60 of professionals. So I love that we are talking about this, because that's if there's one thing I've learned from running this podcast is that cannabis users come from all walks of life. And it's sometimes it is surprising, sometimes it's not surprising, but it doesn't really matter because it's everybody. In some ways, I mean, I know lots of people that don't consume, but some of those people still might use a cannabis topical to help with aches and pains. So, you know, it's such a such a nuanced and adventurous plant, if you will, that that I love talking about the de stigmatization. now circling back a little bit to the events that you're hosting. can you share some examples of these events and the impact that they've had on participants, and maybe anything that surprised you about the events that you've held or the feedback that you've gotten from them?

Margaret 00:20:14 Yeah.

Allison 00:20:15 so some of our more recent events have been centered around consumption networking events, again, because of who we're talking to. A lot of these professionals, they're people who are already in the industry, who are looking to make connections, or those who are looking to break into the industry. And so we've hosted a few of them and they've been very successful. So we've decided to continue them quarterly. Our next one is on November 14th in the Phoenix, Arizona area. but some of the feedback that we've gotten is, you know, I've, I've made connections that have helped me to, you know, get a foot into the industry or I've now made new friends that I can consume with because I know that they're like minded. a lot of what we hear about all of our events is that the, the quote that we get so often is like, the vibes are immaculate, which makes me so happy. because it is not, it is more about making connections. And while consumption is a part of the event, it is never the focal point of why we're getting together.

Allison 00:21:24 It is essentially an accessory to the experience. we've done things where we did a Galentine's, which was a celebration of women and the love that we have for one another and the support that we have for one another, and it was a co-ed event. So it was great to have, you know, male allies there as well. we did a pride event even before, and we had a health care worker who did a talk on, you know, providing conscious care to, you know, no matter how a person identifies, which was really beautiful. and then we also had a drag queen there that just talked about their experience with the plant and how it helped them in their journey to, you know, accepting themselves as how they truly felt. So again, it always is consumption oriented, but we always have something else. we usually have, you know, music. We always have some kind of art installation and education component. we've had like live paintings done there at the events that then are auctioned off for charity.

Allison 00:22:35 Oh, man, we did this campaign last winter. That was, like, such a beautiful thing. It was called highs for humanity, and we partnered with a bunch of dispensaries, and we put collection boxes in their dispensaries, and we collected, like, essential items for the unsheltered, the the homeless community. And it was things like toothbrushes, hairbrushes, socks, lotion, you know, basic needs. And so it was a it was a great partnership because we were able to drive people into the stores, which is important for the dispensaries. And then we hosted an event at the end of the campaign where we took all of our collections and we packaged them up into care packages, and then we distributed those to the unsheltered community here in the Phoenix area. And like the way that the community came together not only to deliver the donations, but actually at the consumption event where we were packaging everything, it.

Margaret 00:23:34 Was.

Allison 00:23:34 Like, incredible. Just such an uplifting, warm environment where you were connecting with people who also care about, like volunteering, for example.

Margaret 00:23:44 I love everything you just said. I want to go to pause consumption lounge.

Margaret 00:23:49 Like right away, any time please. Like.

Margaret 00:23:53 It sounds like what you're building is community too, because people are finding these new friends, but they're finding people that they connect with on levels outside of just, cannabis consumption. And I think the vibes are immaculate. That sounds pretty accurate.

Margaret 00:24:08 So I love everything about that.

Margaret 00:24:11 And we need a pause consumption lounge where I live, I think so.

Allison 00:24:15 I hope so, honestly, I do have my eye on Canada, because I do think that you guys have been more on the forefront of legalization, and I do think that lounges will come to Canada sooner rather than later, and it's much needed. So yeah.

Margaret 00:24:29 It's about time too, I think. Like, I think you're right that they are going to come sooner rather than later at this point, but it's about damn time. So yeah.

Margaret 00:24:36 Yeah, yeah. But I love.

Margaret 00:24:39 What you're like, the community that you're building within your consumption lounge, because I think that's beautiful.

Margaret 00:24:43 Like all the events that you were just talking about just is really an opportunity to connect with other cannabis lovers, but people on other levels too. So I am curious, because we did talk a little bit about social justice. And you were talking about, you know, collecting things for, say, the unhoused and, and other things like that. how do you address and challenge inequalities in the cannabis industry itself?

Allison 00:25:06 You know, we really start with direct action. of course we do talk about the issues that are at hand and the disparity, for example, around like how social equity licenses have been used. but really it's more about putting that passion into action. So how do we help people find resources and support that they need if they're looking to, you know, they want a social equity license for example, and they're looking to like, find funding or they're looking for real estate or property. How can we use the networking connections that we have through post consumption to link those people up? That's how our networking events really started to blossom.

Allison 00:25:47 Was being able to, like, facilitate these types of connections? but also, you know, like we see a problem, there's a huge homeless, problem here in the Arizona, state and in Phoenix specifically. So how do we help people? How do we see them as human and not as other? And how do we address that and give back any way that we possibly can? and, and just continue to do that in a way that we really have an opportunity to. Right.

Margaret 00:26:16 So, I mean, you're just even just talking about it sometimes is half the battle because a lot of people don't even want to talk about those issues, and you can't even deal with them unless you're talking about them.

Margaret 00:26:25 And then, of course.

Margaret 00:26:26 It sounds like you're obviously taking action as well.

Allison 00:26:29 Yeah. I think what we didn't want is just to be on a soapbox and say, hey, there's all these issues. We wanted to say there are real issues. Here are what they are. Let's speak about them plainly, but then let's do something about it, because that's the only thing that is going to make a difference for these people, right?

Margaret 00:26:46 And a lot of the times, that's the one piece that's missing because it's easy to talk about things, but it takes energy to do something to take action.

Margaret 00:26:54 So yeah, and.

Allison 00:26:55 To do it empathetically as well. And to understand that even one of the things that I've, I've learned through my experience is really like, as much as you can empathize and be compassionate for someone else's experience, that doesn't make it your own. And so it's really important that when possible, you're giving them the platform to say, this is what we need. Don't come in as a savior and expect that, you know, they are going to want the gifts that you're trying to give them. Say, what do you need? Ask them directly and then do the work to. Then do what you can to provide what they actually need. So I think that's a really important distinction.

Margaret 00:27:35 Yeah, it is because you're asking them what they need. And then you're going to be quiet and listen. And then you'll learn a lot that way. So I love that and I'm glad you brought that up. Now you've been running, how long have you had the lounge for? I don't know if you mentioned that.

Margaret 00:27:47 Two years.

Allison 00:27:47 Yeah. November 22nd is when we started.

Margaret 00:27:50 Okay.

Margaret 00:27:51 That's really exciting. And of course, I'm sure it hasn't been all roses the whole time. What are some of the challenges that you've had to to overcome and running? Pause.

Margaret 00:28:00 You know,

Allison 00:28:01 I think the obvious one for a lot of people in the industry and for us included, is always financial. you know, we are a self-funded startup, and so we're not backed by some big VC firm or anything like that. It's very bootstraps. and so we really appreciate what our community puts into pause because it comes directly back into the vision of pause. And so that's been a challenge. and then regulatory as well, because a big part of what we're doing behind the scenes is trying to advocate for formal consumption lounge regulations. Right now here in this area, the way lounges are able to exist is by getting city level approval. And so it is a bit of a grey area because only that city is approving that location. It's not like the rest of the industry here, or like lounge programs in other states where there's a regulatory framework, there's rules of engagement, and we're all abiding by a certain code of conduct.

Allison 00:29:05 It really is self imposed. and because of that, it's very high risk. And so just like regular things like insurance, I know it's not like sparkly, but it's super, super important. And because we're doing something that's really new and novice, it's really, really expensive. and so just the overhead costs that come with something like that in an unsanctioned kind of gray space is, you know, a challenge upon itself. And then really what we're hoping for is programs that allow for more revenue streams. For example, we would like to mirror programs more similar to what you see in the state of Nevada, where consumption lounges are able to dispense a per person allotment there on site, and they really have become an extension of the regulated industry there because you cannot really realistically long term think all of your revenue just on attendance or essentially renting out tables or selling admissions or event sponsorships from plant touching companies. You really need to be able to have that high profit, be able to dispense the product yourself and then offer other things like infused and non infused food and beverage.

Allison 00:30:31 and so those are some of the challenges and what we like to see for the future.

Margaret 00:30:35 Right. And I'm sure the challenges will also continue to some degree until you have federal legalization. So hopefully that will be coming sooner rather than later as well, because that just adds a whole other layer to everything.

Allison 00:30:48 It will change everything. and I can only predict what I think is going to happen. I think a lot of it will be, a more of a challenge for a little while, but then hopefully it becomes better and better. I'm not one for just rescheduling. I really am not an advocate of that. I don't think the plant should be a scheduled drug at all. I am more for D scheduling and that federal like legalization. And I'd like to just have, you know, regular oversight from the appropriate body if that's the FDA or whomever, like, let's just play by the rules of everyone else.

Margaret 00:31:28 Yeah, and that would simplify things for pretty much everybody, which would be really nice.

Margaret 00:31:32 So I'm hoping that this we're in an election cycle for you guys are in an election cycle in the US. And I think both candidates have touched on the idea of potentially legalizing. And so maybe that's good news. We'll see what happens. But I'll be rooting for you up here in Canada.

Margaret 00:31:48 Thanks. Yeah I think the.

Allison 00:31:50 More we can see successful lounge programs, then the better for everyone. It'll kind of spread the same way. I see the medical and adult use programs kind of. Yeah.

Margaret 00:32:00 Now you've described your community and it sounds like it's really diverse and inclusive. How do you ensure that all the voices are heard in the in the cannabis community within your lounge?

Allison 00:32:10 Yeah, it's really by design. You know, there's no one voice or one perspective or one role or position or experience that is more valuable than another. Anyone who is coming into our lounge, coming to our events. They have the same playing field as anybody else. There's no special treatment if you're the CEO of a company or if you're a bud tender, you know everyone has the power in their voice.

Allison 00:32:38 and, you know, we do that through how we engage with people from the moment they walk in. Everyone is, you know, treated with respect. We have a zero tolerance policy for anything other than that. And luckily, because of the people that we attract, we've never had an issue with anything like that. But really, you know, then those voices that sometimes it's easy for the loudest person in the room to be the most heard. So how do you consciously say, you know, okay, we're going to give other people an opportunity now, like, and then calling on those people who don't naturally want to volunteer themselves but do have really important things to say or to add to a conversation. and so kind of drawing them into that safe space where they can feel like I can share my perspective in this judgment free zone. I can ask any question, I can provide a perspective, and no one is going to come at me, you know, with disrespect. I think one of the best things is that you can have really strong, powerful, engaging conversations and even not align on perspectives, but do so really respectfully.

Allison 00:33:47 And that's something I'm really proud of that we've fostered.

Margaret 00:33:50 Yeah. And I love that because I wish that was existed more in the world as it is, like people with differing perspectives.

Margaret 00:33:56 We can have.

Margaret 00:33:56 Like a conversation with each other and agree to disagree, perhaps, but still be able to treat each other with a certain, you know, level of respect. Like, I think that's sometimes what the world is missing right now. And I love that you're fostering that. Do you have any advice for how to encourage that kind of openness outside of the lounge?

Allison 00:34:15 Yeah, I think really, you know, let's not forget that everyone is human And we all are really doing the best that we can. And I really believe that. I think everyone is doing the best they possibly can with the information and the tools that they have, and so give people that grace, even if you're disagreeing with something, or if you think one of their viewpoints is completely alien or outlandish to you, just think, okay, they probably don't.

Allison 00:34:43 They don't have the tools or they don't have the same understanding, or they didn't have the same life experience that I have, and that's okay. But how do we actually just still move forward and think, how can I do the best by this person and leave this conversation in a way that I can feel proud of how I engaged with them?

Margaret 00:35:02 Right. And that's just sort of putting the onus back on the person themselves. Like, because you don't want to leave an interaction where everybody's feeling shitty about how it turned out. And sometimes, even if you don't always agree with somebody on something, that doesn't mean you can't learn something. At the same time.

Allison 00:35:17 I agree with that, and I think that a lot of it just comes from, you know, the diverse First experiences that people have and unfortunately, maybe the biases that they hold still. And so, you know, you're not going to fix that in one conversation. and so I think expecting that is unrealistic, right?

Margaret 00:35:34 I got the sun in my eyes.

Margaret 00:35:35 I might have to move a little bit.

Margaret 00:35:39 So how do you.

Margaret 00:35:39 See the role of cannabis evolving in the future, especially in terms of like mainstream medicine and wellness.

Margaret 00:35:45 Practices? You know.

Allison 00:35:47 What I hope doesn't happen is that it becomes a isolation of itself. I would hate to see that something that is so complex that we really don't understand fully become, you know, a synthetic alternative. I think we have seen that a little bit with some of the synthesis and the, you know, cannabinoid creation that's happened in the hemp space. But I believe that has occurred because of this kind of invisible divide between cannabis and hemp in the regulations here in the states around that. So I think if we get rid of that invisible difference between these two things that we called cannabis and hemp, then we can move forward just to really say, okay, the plant as itself is the way that it should be. It was created over millennia and nothing that we're going to, you know, just recreate in an isolation is going to have that complexity.

Allison 00:36:47 And since we don't truly know all the different things that go into creating the experience, the more and more we isolate it, the less we're going to actually really get that full effect, the entourage effect, if you will. and so I hope that we see that the plant remains complex. I hope that as it becomes more accepted into, you know, medicine, that it doesn't lose the the different elements of it that make it whole. Because we have a guide that goes that's called Beyond Cannabinoids. And we talk about terpenes and ketones, aldehydes, all of these other chemical compounds that are in the plant that do create this full experience. And whether you're having that as flower or vape or an edible or a tincture, they all are playing a really important role, that we don't fully understand.

Margaret 00:37:43 Yeah. So yeah, I would love to see that.

Margaret 00:37:45 Yeah. And I would agree with you because, I mean, I think time and time again, the research has shown that isolated cannabinoids don't, aren't as effective, aren't as effective as the full spectrum because you're lacking that entourage effect from all those things.

Margaret 00:38:00 And like, they would also admit, they don't fully understand the entourage effect and why it works so well. But, you know, like you said, it's evolved over a millennia or 2 or 3 or whatever. So.

Margaret 00:38:10 Yeah.

Margaret 00:38:11 Who knows how long. And it's beautiful and diverse. And like you said, it's full of all these other chemical compounds that you're benefiting from at the same time. So I would love I, I would agree with you on that, that I think that we should just leave it. Leave her alone a little.

Margaret 00:38:26 Yeah. She's perfect. Yeah. We should just.

Allison 00:38:28 Admire her and appreciate her and respect our use of her.

Margaret 00:38:32 Yeah.

Allison 00:38:33 yeah. And I think the negative experiences that people sometimes have, where there's an organization here in Arizona that I'm involved in that works a lot with the poison control, and a lot of the calls that they get linked back to these synthetic cannabinoids. So there's something like that's very potentially dangerous about it that I think we also don't fully, understand yet.

Allison 00:38:55 So, again, keep her as she is. We don't know.

Margaret 00:38:57 Better. Yeah, exactly.

Margaret 00:38:59 Although perhaps this next question maybe. Well, it sort of leads into that. It's just then you have a notion of the way things are is the way things should always be. And you like to challenge that notion, which is a little bit different than what we were just talking about, of course. But can you elaborate on that philosophy and how it guides your work in cannabis education and advocacy.

Margaret 00:39:20 Yeah, really.

Allison 00:39:22 You know, when I talk about that, they shouldn't be the way that they always are. I'm not questioning the plan itself. I'm more talking about the society that's built around the plant. And so I think we have come a long way, like we talked about going from prohibition into this new legalization that we have now. But that doesn't mean that we're at the end of this road. We need to continue to evolve. Federal legalization, which we talked about, I think is a must have on the horizon.

Allison 00:39:50 I think, you know, international commerce is something that makes a lot of sense. But, you know, really starting at a local level and then building up, how do we take all the investment, all the infrastructure, all the jobs that have been built in this current industry and continue to offer those opportunities for growth for the plant and for the people that are servicing the plant in the industry. So how do we take a state level program scale that into a national program. How do we scale that into, you know, interstate commerce, into international commerce, while maintaining and preserving the integrity of the plant? I think that's something that's very possible and maybe a little idealistic, but I will always maintain that kind of perspective. I will always be the the idealist on the mountain, if you will, rather than thinking that everything has to just be about, you know, the the bottom line, it matters. Of course.

Margaret 00:40:47 We're.

Allison 00:40:47 In a business.

Margaret 00:40:48 Like, yeah, yeah.

Allison 00:40:49 But it doesn't have to be the centerfold of everything.

Allison 00:40:53 It needs to be there. So that way we can continue to service people and service the plant. But it doesn't have to come at the cost of people or the plant or the planet. so that's how I see it. And then really around the social structure around, you know, housing rights, consumption rights, those things have a long, long road that we have not walked yet. That needs to continue to evolve.

Margaret 00:41:18 Yeah, and I think it's important, though, to not forget about maintaining the integrity and the community around around cannabis, because it's really easy to get lost when people are talking about, well, how cheaply can I grow this, this cannabis or how how can I sell it to get, you know, sell the most that I possible? It's always ends up like it's if you forget that piece, then it becomes really commercial. And that sort of takes away from from the whole reason we all got together in the first place, which was cannabis, makes us feel better and it provides all these benefits and it creates community.

Margaret 00:41:49 And I think if we forget that, we'll look back one day and and probably regret it. So we need people like you to keep advocating for that as well. And do you have real world solutions that pauses advocating for to address societal challenges related to cannabis use and access?

Allison 00:42:08 Yeah. I mean, really it comes down to codifying regulations. I think as much as we don't want to think that that's important, it really, really is, because the law is what sets the tone and people will adhere to the letter of the law up into the point that they are required. And so as far as consumption, it just it needs to be legalized. There needs to be a framework of regulations around lounges, a kind of, you know, code of conduct, if you will, just the same way dispensaries and cannabis manufacturing and cultivations have. I think that has to happen. So doing that work to actually work with regulators, encourage them to understand more about what the industry needs. I think that's something that I really advocate a lot for, is don't make regulations in a vacuum about something that you don't actually understand.

Allison 00:43:00 How do we work together? How can we educate one another of keeping people safe, but moving the needle forward on what is allowable? and I think around the way that, you know, social equity licenses have been a nice attempt to create some equality within the industry, but a lot of it has gone to the hands of the people who are then essentially preying on those who were awarded those licenses. they'll say, okay, you awarded a you were awarded a license, but there was no framework for funding. There was no. Maybe you have the business acumen and you don't need that. But that's not true of everyone. So how do you create like an essentially a program where they're being taught how to run a business? How do you run a startup? How do you get that funding? How do you manage your PNL and give people not just the license, but the actual tools to grow the business into their own and not have to hand it off to, you know, someone else who's already in the driver's seat of a large company.

Margaret 00:44:04 Right? And probably with deeper pockets and all that.

Margaret 00:44:07 Kind of thing. Yeah, I do like.

Margaret 00:44:08 That. You mentioned about the regulations, because it's really not a sexy thing to talk about, I guess, but a lot of the people who are making those decisions, like you said, they just don't have the understanding. And it seems like those powers that be make these regulations. And sometimes we're left, like scratching our heads, like, why would they do that? But yeah, they really don't know and why they're not going out there and asking, I don't know, maybe they're busy, but is that sort of one of the things where you see where you see communities could get involved in this kind of thing?

Allison 00:44:38 Absolutely. I think if you're not already talking to your regulators or your regulatory body on a regular basis, you're making a big mistake. and one thing that we see here in the States is every state not only has its own program and its own rules, but who is regulating that program is different from state to state.

Allison 00:44:59 And how they what's important to them to regulate is based off of what kind of regulating body they are. If they're the health department, they're going to care that your kitchen is clean and that you have this standard of sanitation. If it's the board of pharmacy, they're going to have a completely different set of rules that they're most interested in. It's going to be all weights and measures. And, you know, right. More on that side of the business. If they are the same regulating body that regulates alcohol, you're going to see that same kind of relationship with how they treat alcohol to how they're regulating cannabis. And so that's something that's really nuanced here in the States. And you have to engage them and think about, okay, who are they? What do they care about? What are they thinking about, what's their reality. And then how do you educate them about what's important to the cannabis industry? How do we make it safe again for everyone, but not impossible to operate because it's already heavily regulated.

Allison 00:46:00 So let's not make it even more difficult with like silly red tape and things that don't make sense for this plant at this.

Margaret 00:46:07 Time, right?

Margaret 00:46:08 Because it is a highly regulated industry. And I've talked to people too, who are sort of in the in the food and cannabis industry that's double regulated. And of course, people who are on the ground, I suppose you know, the right for home grow as well as super important. And if people aren't advocating for that, then they might not get it, because, you know, regulators might not understand how important that is for people as well.

Allison 00:46:29 Not only will the regulators not understand that the people who are talking to them have a vested interest in people not growing for themselves, right? So if they're the ones that they're talking to, and that's the only perspective that they're hearing, then they're going to understand that one, the most need to hear from the community, not just operators. It's really, really important. And like for people to say, oh, you know, it's not political or I'm not political, that's a privilege and maybe one that you don't always get.

Allison 00:47:00 So I would say take the plunge. It's not that scary. They want to hear from you. Call your regulator, send them an email. They're very easy to contact.

Margaret 00:47:09 Right? Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes you have to do that work up in Canada. I don't know if you heard that in the province of Manitoba, they banned the right to grow at home. And somebody took up the took up the charge and took it to the Supreme Court. I believe he he eventually won. It was a long battle, but he did eventually win. So they have home grown now in Manitoba. They still don't have home grown in Quebec. So unless somebody is going to challenge those regulations, then you know you're not allowed to grow at home.

Margaret 00:47:42 And yeah, yeah, I think don't be.

Allison 00:47:44 Afraid to challenge them. Like again kind of even to what we were talking about earlier. Like you can disagree with them. It's okay. Do it respectfully. Be professional, make your points, do it intelligently.

Allison 00:47:57 And don't just lay down and, you know, expect that something is going to change if you're not willing to do something about it, right?

Margaret 00:48:04 Yes. Now for you. Why did you go in the direction of consumption lounges versus other models to provide the advocacy and education that you're providing.

Allison 00:48:14 You know, I really see it as the unique opportunity to engage with people and the product at the same time. having been involved with so many, you know, organizations that have dispensaries and the challenges of educating at a dispensary level, trying to get the right product that that person is looking for, really, and then even working on the brand and product development side, getting that direct to consumer experience is so valuable and being able to have your product there explain to them what it is supposed to be, how they are supposed to use it, and then being able to walk them through that experience and then guide them through the the after of the consumption and be there with them. That's something that is so important for both the product, the people behind the product and the consumer themselves.

Allison 00:49:08 And so it just seemed to me like a great opportunity to make that community connection in a really personal, personable way. But I also see consumption lounges really as the next evolution of the current industry, because we need more places to dispense and then legally consume cannabis. And why not consumption lounges like it? It seems perfectly logical that as dispensaries have become more normalized, why wouldn't we have other places that we can purchase the product? Why does it only have to be that one location like it doesn't? That doesn't make sense for the growth of the industry. And and for something that is so personal to people, like being able to be there and guide them through that consumption experience is just something that you can't replicate in another environment.

Margaret 00:50:03 and I think also people are probably really looking for that sense of community as well. And it sounds like you're really offering that too. And I think that's so needed right now that some people, even though we're more connected than ever, you know, sometimes we're also not we don't feel like we're more connected and people are really looking for that valuable, you know, FaceTime with other people who think the same way.

Margaret 00:50:25 And I would love consumption lounges in Canada because we have bars everywhere. But why not a place where you can go and hang out and learn some new things and meet some new people?

Margaret 00:50:34 Like, yeah, exactly. It's very.

Allison 00:50:36 Normal. It seems like, honestly, we'll look back one day and think, how did we not have these? Right? I think it's even how maybe younger people feel about the current industry, you know? my I have a daughter who is 11, and she's only known the cannabis industry. That's all I've done in her whole life. And so she thinks it's very, very normal. And she honestly thinks it's not cool. She's like, that's just something mom does. So, like, who cares about that? you know. And I think that her generation, the generation after her will think, of course, we have consumption lounges, just like there's bars, just like those positive depictions of cannabis use in media. I think that's something that will help with the stigmatization in the future, too.

Margaret 00:51:21 Yeah.

Margaret 00:51:22 And I love that you mentioned about your daughter being like, yeah, it's not cool because that's sort of like a classic. Like as soon as you tell somebody, especially kids, that they can't do something, that's when they're interested. But then when it's like normalized and stuff, they're like, oh, I'm such, you know, that's not cool at all.

Margaret 00:51:38 Something like.

Allison 00:51:39 Who cares?

Margaret 00:51:40 Yeah. And you know, so.

Margaret 00:51:42 They're more likely. And then you can have those open conversations too. And so they're going to get older and make a choice for themselves whether or not they want to consume it. And they'll do it in an appropriate way hopefully too. So. Exactly. Like you should talk to your kids about alcohol as well.

Allison 00:51:56 But exactly. Same exact thing. You know, there's things that are you know, you have alcohol in your home, you have cannabis in your home. Just talk to your kids about it. Teach them respect. This is something for adults.

Allison 00:52:07 This is not something for you right now. We can, you know, explore it when your age appropriate.

Margaret 00:52:12 Right.

Margaret 00:52:13 Yeah. Now looking ahead, do you have any goals that you're excited about for the over the next few years for paws?

Allison 00:52:20 Yeah. I mean I really would like to expand, you know, brick and mortar locations here in the US. Like I said earlier, I have my eye on Canada. I would love to have brick and mortar locations there too. and really just continue to see codified regulations across the state with programs that make sense for cannabis consumption, lounge owners and, participants that keep everyone really safe, have access to great state tested products and, you know, a safe and warm, welcoming environment. That's what I really hope for now and in the future.

Margaret 00:52:58 Well, I hope you succeed because I have loved everything you've talked about today. And like I said, I would be thrilled to be able to visit a consumption lounge. I mean, I would maybe one day I'll be in Arizona, but, you know, it would be nice for you to come to Canada as well.

Margaret 00:53:12 And I think you're doing some.

Margaret 00:53:13 Really important work in the world. So thank you for sharing all of this with me, your vision and your goals and what you're doing right now. I think, I'm really glad we had this conversation.

Allison 00:53:24 Me too. Thank you so much for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Margaret 00:53:27 Thank you. I trust you learned something from that episode, and I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Alison as much as I did. And of course, please share this episode with someone that you think might also appreciate it. Or I challenge you to text someone right now and share with them this episode. And I think that's it for this week, my friends. As always, I'll link to pause consumption and the other resources mentioned in this episode over in the show notes at Bite Me podcast.com. And until next time my friends stay high.