Can Canada Become the Ultimate Cannabis Tourism Destination?

Marge (00:00:06) - Welcome back friends. Today I'm joined by Reverend Kelly to talk about cannabis tourism for episode 256. Welcome to the Faces of Cannabis interview series, where we take a break from talking about edibles and focus on the people behind the plant, whether it's fellow podcasters Bud Tenders, Ganjier advocates, cultivators, cannabis lovers all have their stories to share and I want to share them with you. Hi friends. Welcome. Thank you for joining me today. If you're a new listener, I'm glad you decided to tune in. And if you're a long time listener, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate new and old listeners alike, and I think you're really going to enjoy today's episode. I'm joined by Reverend Kelly. Some of you may know her from the brand Kelly's Green Lounge KLTV. She is a busy woman, and today we're talking about cannabis tourism. And you're going to find out a whole lot about what Kelly has been up to to help promote cannabis tourism, specifically in Canada. But a lot of this can apply to other regions as well that are exploring legal cannabis.

Marge (00:01:15) - Recently, the Canadian Cannabis Tourist Association unveiled a plan to make Canada the ultimate cannabis tourism destination. And as a Canadian myself, how can I not get behind a proposal like that? And I think any place that has recreational cannabis is part of its thing that it does, should be looking at tourism. If you can find a place to drink, why not be able to find a place to consume cannabis? I didn't say smoke because personally I am an edibles lover and I like to eat my cannabis. But there should be something for everybody. Without further ado, please enjoy this engaging conversation with Reverend Kelly. There we go. Hello everyone! I'm really excited to be sitting down today with Kelly, and I was just hoping, Kelly, that you could introduce yourself to the listeners of Bite Me and let them know a little bit about yourself and your background in the cannabis industry.

Kelly (00:02:17) - Okay, but first I have to just say how happy I am to be here with you. I love your podcast, I love you, I love what you're doing, and cannabis.

Kelly (00:02:24) - I think it's so important. I think you're so important. And we both live in the Peterborough area, and we're building this community up here, and I like doing projects with you up here. So Bite Me Podcast is such an important podcast and you've been around for a long time and people love you and that's so important. So I just want to take take time to say that first. Thank you because you are very important. Okay. So hello I'm Kelly, Reverend Kelly and I've been active for about seven ish years in cannabis, and I am an actual minister of cannabis spirituality. I'm leading the cannabis spirituality movement here in Canada. I was ordained four years ago, and I transferred my metaphysical ordained and to sort of that cannabis spirituality realm, and that's what I am a minister of. And so that's the first thing I am. But I'm also a certified cannabis educator, and I have created two cannabis courses with a brilliant cannabis educator, Stacey Bobak and Andrew McHarg, respectively. The first one is the homeostasis hippie, and the other one is how to talk to your kids about cannabis.

Kelly (00:03:37) - And with that, I also wrote a children's book, The Smelliest Flower in the garden, to sort of teach children that cannabis is okay for you, too. I think the first thing that people recognize me for is the Kelly Kelly's Green Lounge brand, which was sort of how I started everything online. social media wise. And then it branched out to me doing public appearances and education. And then I opened up a cannabis lounge, which was open for two and a half years in Orono, Ontario, and I closed that so that I could do large scale events like kind of summer fair and kind winter fair and Kid Expo. And I just did, the 420 Expo in Niagara Falls. So things like that, because we were just too small. We village of Orono just was a little bit, I guess, out of the way, not really human friendly because there was no public transportation there, and we were hit by Covid too. But when we were there, we did a lot of firsts. And I really learned about cannabis tourism and the impact of cannabis on a region and tourism on a region.

Kelly (00:04:42) - So that was sort of my first spark into that piece. But when we were there, of course, as I explained, we were hit by Covid. We had to close our doors. We couldn't have our cannabis and comedy events or our yoga toke events or our workshops or anything. So as I was building the lounge, I was building a community, and I didn't want the community to lose what we had built. So I turned everything online and built a media channel called KLTV. And KLTV has produced hundreds of hours of original cannabis content and programs, and each week we still are active. We produce brand new cannabis content shows every week, with hosts from all over North America and guests from all over the world. And I myself have interviewed hundreds of people about their cannabis stories or affiliation to cannabis in my spare time. I said on the board of three federal not for profits, and I'm also the chair of nominations for the Inspire Awards. and I'm also on the advisory Committee for education, and one of the boards that I sit on that I helped found is the KTA, which is the Canadian Cannabis Tourism Alliance.

Kelly (00:05:55) - And we're sort of that lobbying body for cannabis tourism here in Canada. And so with that, I'll stop, because I know that's why you brought me here today.

Marge (00:06:05) - Yes it is. And that's quite a list of accomplishments that you have within the cannabis industry, especially considering it's only been about seven years since you've been doing all this work. And you are definitely a huge advocate for cannabis and cannabis education, which I really appreciate because some of those stigmas just don't want to die. But it's people like you that are out there talking about the plant in a, you know, dispelling all the myths that we were led to believe were true when it comes to prohibition and all the propaganda we grew up with. So I think the work that you're doing is really important. But we are here today to talk about cannabis tourism. And I'm just curious how you got involved in cannabis tourism and what drew you into this niche in particular?

Kelly (00:06:48) - Well, it's so when I had the lounge open, Kelly Screen Lounge in Orono.

Kelly (00:06:54) - It was my first spark into that. And people came from all over North America to come to the lounge. It was that popular. There was a little bit of a time where people traveled from different provinces, and I'm getting goosebumps thinking about it, because it's magic to think that, like, people actually came to Kelly's Green Lounge to be part of that. And it brought people to the area. And it was something that when there were cannabis lounges and there's there hasn't been that many in our country. And when there were, there was Vapour Lounge in Toronto and Youngster Dam, and we actually formed a little alliance. right at the beginning of Covid, not knowing that it was coming. And, we were going to start working on what we could do for cannabis lounges. And then that that happened and they shut down. And then I ended up shutting down a couple of years later. And so when we were working, it was Anthony Carvalho and Wally Farrah. And, we actually just stayed in touch.

Kelly (00:07:54) - And I was also working with Doctor Susan Dupuy, who is at Guelph University, and she researches cannabis tourism. And Elizabeth Becker, from high BNB. So these are all people. And so cannabis tourism was a topic with all of those people. And it really was very inspirational to hear the trials and tribulations of what they were going through, especially Elizabeth Becker with high BNB, which is sort of like that Airbnb equivalent for cannabis with experiences and places you can stay. And I was actually, I was going to do experiences with high BNB and writing about them. So I was staying in people's places. I went to a tantric workshop place, I went to a farm and like I would write about them. And there was a time where again, before Covid, we were going to do a show where I went on the road for HIV and we shot a pilot, and it was all about cannabis tourism experiences. So the bug really hit me like I was just like, wow, this is really great.

Kelly (00:08:50) - So I went to Elizabeth and Susan and I said, what can we do about this? Like sort of fostering, cannabis tourism in our country? And they were they were let's talk about it. Let's maybe get everybody together. And we grabbed Jennifer Mason, for New Heights Cannabis, who was active a few years ago, and everybody just and nev, the 420. So he's got a tour. I'm so sorry. I can't remember your tour in Toronto, but he's got a cannabis tour. But he's also somebody that did the global marijuana march. That's what's so this wonderful group of activists and business owners and people that were really passionate about cannabis tourism lined up, got on a call and decided that we wanted to form an alliance and it really grew from there. We pulled in Warley, we pulled in Anthony, and we pulled in a couple of others people federally that are no longer with the CTA. It wasn't called that yet. We were just figuring how we could build on what we wanted to build.

Kelly (00:09:49) - This was about 3 or 4 years ago when things were still really new and things were still like we had just legalized edibles, right? We were in that phase two, like, what are we going to do with this? We can't do infuse dining. We want to how can we get together? How can we have this conversation? How can we support each other? So that's how it happened. And we formed. And then some of the other beautiful advocates came on board Thomas O'Neil and Karen Mariano and Jeremy Smith, who is our Ken Avenger, lobbyist of the CTA. He came through because he was putting petitions forward with government officials to make changes about edibles happening, and infused dining and delivery packages of meals to help with medicine. And so this band of humans just got together that we decided and we formed the Canadian Cannabis Tourism Alliance, the KTA. And we in November we will be celebrating our third AGM, our third annual annual general meeting.

Marge (00:10:48) - That's really exciting. I didn't realize that you were in the ground floor for the KTA and sort of getting it all rolling, but it makes sense because you obviously saw a gap in in the market for what consumers are probably looking for, because I feel like that you mentioned the cannabis lounges, like even though we were five years into legalization, we don't have a lot of these things that would make cannabis more mainstream and accessible for a lot of people.

Marge (00:11:12) - And recently, the KTA unveiled a plan to make Canada the ultimate cannabis tourism destination. And I love the sound of that. And if all the recommendations in the report were accepted, how long do you think it would be before Canada would be on the map as the ultimate destination to go for cannabis, folks?

Kelly (00:11:34) - That's, that's a really good question because you said it the right way. If all of those recommendations were put into if we were allowed to do like we asked for a lot of things, we want spas to be able to use CBD. We want cannabis weddings, we want infused dining. We want all of those changes to happen in the safest way. But I don't know when they're going to happen. Like, that's that's what you're saying. You're if of course, if all of those things happened, it wouldn't be long at all. It would be months. Like, look what happened in Thailand when Thailand they they decriminalized and they legalized in a grayish sort of way. And in a way enough that enough cannabis enterprises opened up, that millions of people were heading there, heading, heading, heading and still are.

Kelly (00:12:22) - They've just changed the laws a little bit. So things are a little bit different right now. We're changing, transitioning to change. But what I mean is when they open up the the gateways there to green gold rush, everybody headed there and they open up businesses, people from outside of Thailand, people inside of Thailand, and people made millions of dollars in the last year doing that. And that happened right away. So if we were given all of our regulations, if they went, yep. Check Mark to everything you guys have asked for, then it would just be it would it would be months, like weeks before everybody because everybody would be in it because this is a billion, if not trillion dollar industry in the coming years. That's what's forecasted in the coming years worldwide. I was in Ottawa about three weeks, 3 or 4 weeks ago on behalf of the CTA, and I heard and and what I went for, I'll explain. What I went for is destinations. Canada puts on this big tourism thing where everybody, all all the people from tourism around the country, not cannabis tourism, but around the country come in and they have conversations like about tourism.

Kelly (00:13:22) - There's the head of Air Canada, the head of hotels and the whole like the big guys, right? And they're all sitting at tables. And Jeremy Smith and myself were there, the only cannabis tourism people that were allowed in the room, not allowed, but welcomed, I guess, because, you know, we're a new industry and we're still that like they're here about what kind of industry. But what they're talking about is that they're forging for forge acting, for casting their forecasting, projecting. I was combining the two words. They're forecasting that by 2030 that the industry, the tourism industry in Canada is going to be worth $160 billion. What I was like, what right now, the tourism industry in Canada is worth $140 billion. Oh, wow. So that's the tourism, right? Like, I'm just like what?

Marge (00:14:14) - Like forecasting a $20 billion increase over in a few years.

Kelly (00:14:19) - Years. That's what they want and what they're experiencing and what they're looking for now. I if they're at $140 billion that that that's crazy to me.

Kelly (00:14:28) - That's that's so much money in tourism. So if we look at it, that's Canada's making that much money. Just Canada is making that much money in tourism right now. What's going to be the global cannabis tourism forecast in like in the world by that time? Right. By the time that more regulations have been changed, more places are legalizing, more people understand it. So it is on, on, on track to be a global billion dollar industry. So if we realize that here in Canada right now and we recognize that people are coming, they're talking about it, they're wanting more information about it. And we can go back to the days of when I was in the lounges where I had my hands tied, I couldn't serve cannabis, I couldn't serve cannabis beverages, I couldn't put drops in a tea if I won, I couldn't have bagels with infused cream cheese. That would illegal. I couldn't even smoke in my cannabis lounge. We had to all go outside like it was all regulations in it.

Kelly (00:15:24) - And I thought at that point in time, how can we change this? What can we do? And that's why we we formed that little tiny alliance for the lounges, which didn't work out. But now we've got the CTA. And that's why these regulations are so important. So if we're able to get them looked at and we're able to get them passed through, it will just be a it'll be a matter of hours, my friend. Hours, days, weeks.

Marge (00:15:46) - Not that would be so exciting to because who wouldn't love to go to a spa and be able to incorporate like cannabis topicals, or go to a dispensary or a restaurant for that matter, or bar and pick like enjoy cannabis beverage or infused foods, or go to cannabis weddings and all these other exciting things. And I've seen the recommendations put forth through the that the KTA put forth, and none of it seems wild or outrageous. It's just sort of it would put you on par with the alcohol industry, maybe. how how well-received were the recommendations?

Kelly (00:16:25) - Well, the wonderful thing about that, I mean, they're they were sent in.

Kelly (00:16:28) - So I'll explain how it got there. Harris and Jordan is our lawyer. That's. Come on with the CTA. He's here with us pro bono. He's just out of because he's so passionate about this. And he really, really is dug deep. And he put together this document. I think it was like, I want to say it was 98 pages. I'm not even exaggerating. It was like, what? And so I when it was received by the government, it was received, but it was welcomed. And so they're going to have their conversation, they're going to have their day and whatever it is. I'm so sorry. I'm not a political I'm not I don't I'm not knowledgeable about the political things I call the the prime minister of our country that Justin Mann. So that's just like, this is what I mean by like, I think they go to Parliament and they sit in blue chairs and people wear cloaks, like, I really don't know. But what they do there. What I do know, though, is that the Agco and the OCS and Health Canada have all sat down with our vice president and our president and Harris and Jordan, our lawyer, in the last three weeks about this proposal.

Kelly (00:17:28) - So when you talk about it being received well, it's received well by those parties. It's received well by the media who can't stop posting about it. And we're getting in those doors and having those conversations with the people that are the ones that can make these active changes.

Marge (00:17:43) - Right. And I guess those are the important people you want to get in front of. So they're having the conversations, but, well, that's exciting because I really, really hope that they say yes for a million different reasons. Maybe selfishly too, because I happen to be a lover of edibles, and a lot of it was sort of food focused. But do you have any examples of places that you feel are doing cannabis tourism really well? And I know maybe there's not a ton of options in the world to choose from, but.

Kelly (00:18:13) - Well, yes. Well, we just have a conversation where onboarding a new member from South Africa and South Africa just legalized for they're able they're able to have retail shops now and they have cannabis clubs and they're starting to do cannabis expos.

Kelly (00:18:29) - So they have a cannabis expo and Malta has a cannabis expo and Uruguay has a cannabis expo. So these places are understanding the impact of cannabis. And they have cannabis tourism on for 20 events. The newest legalization nations like Germany. And they have they are celebrating. But I love Thailand. I'll go back to Thailand again. Thailand. You can go to a resort and you can do the things like what you were saying, like a massage with CBD oil or the beverages. Like we don't want to get intoxicated. We want to be elevated. Right. And so they're allowed to do that. And we can talk about Denver has always had a really beautiful community. They have the infused dining places, and we have Nevada that is allowed to have cannabis lounges. Now they actually have buses that you can get in. There's a partition from the driver to the people in the back of the bus, and they're consuming their cannabis as they're being driven along right up to these events that they're allowed to go to and consume their cannabis inside because it's allowed there.

Kelly (00:19:32) - So the US is federally illegal, but they have different regulations per state, and they are allowed to do things that we're not even allowed to do here in Canada, although we're legal here, we have our hands tied and going back to the CBD. In spa, you can have that all over the US right now because of their farm bill. As long as your THC or THC is less than 0.3%, you're good. Like you're good and they're using that. There's oh, it's just hemp. It's just hemp on my skin. You know, hemp vitamins, hemp drinks, hemp, everything. And so they're allowed to do things once we get these regulations changed up here, which is what we're pushing for, it's not even that we need the regulations changed. It was just never written. It's we're living in this gray area here because there's no law at all that says what we can or can't do. Why can you have a beer tent at a festival? Why can you have a whole beer festival? And it's completely fine.

Kelly (00:20:27) - We want cannabis beverages, right? We don't want to be drunk anymore. We want to feel like that the next day. We want to be able to go to our cannabis beverage tent and have all of those things. So that's what we're pushing for it. I'm seeing that things, these kinds of changes, special permits is what we're really pushing for. That's the first phase of this. Give us a special permit so that we can, because we do a big 420 festival every year in Niagara Falls. So give us a just a permit so that we can sell cannabis beverages. Right? Just the way that everybody has their little vendors that are selling beer at these kinds of festivals. Right. Why can't we have our cannabis beverages there? And that's what we're pushing for. So that will be the first stage is permits. And then after that, hopefully they'll just write the regulations so that we are exactly like you're saying, on par with the alcohol industry.

Marge (00:21:15) - Yeah. And it's interesting that you mentioned that because I have been to cannabis events where you can go buy yourself an alcoholic beverage or walk around the, you know, the expo floor, but you have to go outside to consume cannabis and they have to give out non infused samples.

Marge (00:21:32) - And there's no cannabis beverages on site. Like it doesn't make any sense that no, it doesn't make any sense basically. And you're right that they didn't write any of this into the legislation. And it isn't a grey area. And I think I don't know if that was just them being they didn't know what they didn't know, but I think it's a huge missed opportunity. So hopefully they see that there's a big opportunity to help contribute to that $20 million additional forecast in cannabis tourism in Canada. but there must be some challenges that you are facing when it comes to cannabis tourism in Canada. And what would some of those challenges be?

Kelly (00:22:10) - Oh my goodness. Well, let me tell you about what's going on in Niagara Falls. Okay. So as many as I have to say first though, what we're doing there is, is, is we're trying to break ground. We're we're trying to change things there. And the mayor of Niagara Falls has been wonderful. And the constituencies in the area have been wonderful. The counselors that we actually had one of them come and speak on our stage.

Kelly (00:22:35) - Mike Strange, thank you for joining us. So, so some of the people that are associated with it have been so welcoming and so helpful, but when what we want to do, we can't do because there's no legislation to do it. So what we want to do is we want to take this, this bandshell that's in the middle of a Niagara Park, and it faces the falls. And it looks so beautiful. And we're in partnered with the BPM Festival, which is a electronic dance festival that's been around for 12 years. They're global. They're known, they're like Coachella, but for EDM. And so this would be their first Canadian kind of tour with us that they're partnering with us. And so what we want to do is we want to bring our festival, which is an EDM festival, and put it right on the water and have everybody come in all over the world, right? They would come in, it's 420 every year. They're traveling because they know that. Can Canadians celebrate for 20? Bigger and better than everybody else.

Kelly (00:23:33) - So come in and fly. But we want to have that festival and we want to serve our cannabis beverages. And we want to have an area that's a cannabis consumption lounge or outdoor smoking. All right. So Smoke-free Ontario Act, you cannot smoke in a park. You cannot go anywhere near you gonna blow it on a park there. So and Niagara actually has an even higher bar because they are so tourist friendly and because they've had issues with alcohol in the past. So they're they're keeping cannabis on the same level as alcohol. They're like, okay, well, you need to get this extra requirement and this extra requirement and this extra requirement. So we're still facing that when it comes to that. So at this point in time, we can't use any public land or public area for a festival. We have to find a private space which we have. Luckily, we're moving forward with our festival and our partnership with BPM, and we are we're going to do a two day festival, April 19th and 20th of 2025.

Kelly (00:24:29) - Or we had our proof of concept earlier this year and we had a great event with the Niagara for 20 Expo. They're fantastic people and they really get cannabis. They get cannabis expos, but they also are partnering with us because they want to help forward the mission of making change their hands are tied to they can't do sampling on their floors. They can't. Like you're saying you can be inside these events and there's bars, you can have alcohol, you can, you know, you can go and get a drink inside, but you cannot have cannabis. Not only can you not consume cannabis, you can't give cannabis away in there. And there's so many, right? So we are still still still stuck, stuck with so many of these regulations. And that's just one example of what we're facing.

Marge (00:25:11) - Right. So it sounds like there's a lot of red tape you have to encounter. Even talking about offering cannabis at an event like the festivals that you're talking about in Niagara. And it's interesting that you mentioned the Smoke-free Ontario, because I think when that legislation was written, that was before legalization.

Marge (00:25:27) - So obviously, you know, they were thinking about tobacco smokers, but that doesn't always apply to cannabis in the same way. And that is a big hurdle to overcome. So I heard.

Kelly (00:25:37) - So many patients and I say it with patients, consumers of cannabis that are patients that prior to legalization had places that they could go to consume cannabis. Maybe they live in an apartment building or a place where they can't consume at home. So they needed a place to go, and now they shut them all down. And it's so regulated that they don't have that place. Well, what about tourists? What about tourists that are coming that are medical patients that need their cannabis and can't smoke inside a hotel or an Airbnb or wherever they're staying. And now where are they going to smoke? They don't have cannabis lounges here. There's no space for them. There's no dignified consumption for these places or for these people, for these patients. They need a space to consume. And that's just one of the things that we're looking to in hopeful to change for sure.

Marge (00:26:25) - Yeah, that makes a lot of sense because I would say most hotels these days, although the last hotel I stayed at in Toronto, every room had a little balcony and I was just like, this is the best because I could just step it on the balcony and enjoy a smoke. But most places don't have that as an option. And you're right, it really does limit where you can enjoy your cannabis and hopefully that will change. That is definitely a hurdle, but are there any emerging trends in cannabis tourism that you're excited about right now?

Kelly (00:26:53) - I love Farm Gate. I love the model of farm gate. And now you can go adopt baby plants when you're there, which is so beautiful. It's really. Tell me more about that.

Marge (00:27:04) - I haven't heard of that.

Kelly (00:27:05) - Isn't that neat? It's a regulation that was just changed. It was just passed that you when you go to farm gate. So let's just explain farm gate. It's almost like when you go on wine tours for people that like wine, and they can go and tour the winery and they can see that, well, now farm gate farmgate all over, Canada.

Kelly (00:27:22) - I want to say that because I'm thinking there's some in the East Coast, there's definitely a few in New Brunswick, British Columbia. Ontario has a couple. And so when you go, you can tour the facility. You can see the grow, you can smell it growing, and then you can purchase cannabis. You can purchase your plant from there. that has been grown. And you can take it home so that your clone and they just changed that. So you can go on the tour and you can see where your cannabis is being grown and smell it and just be part of the experience. And now you can take one of the babies home. That's amazing.

Marge (00:27:54) - I had no idea that was a thing they need, like a little, farm gate map of all the different facilities that will allow you a tour. Like, do you book ahead and buy a ticket, or how does that work? Because I wasn't really familiar with.

Kelly (00:28:06) - I think that is how it works in some instances. I'm not exactly sure though.

Kelly (00:28:12) - I think that that's how it works. But I know that I have toured one I can't remember. It was Southern Ontario and it was the Greybeard facility, and I toured that a few years ago, and that was a really wonderful experience. So they've been doing these kinds of things in this area for maybe 3 or 4 years, but now this this is the newest regulation. And another thing that's popping up is the cannabis expos and, and people really wanting to do like cannabis festivals. Yet the Unicorn Cup in the BC and you have a couple of different cups that are happening in Ontario as they do, the Stoner Cup is up north, I think, and that's a really neat thing that brings people into the area and gets people really appreciative when you're focused and cannabis focused on a festival or cup or a contest. I love that trend and I hope that we see more of them.

Marge (00:29:04) - I would love to see more of that too, because I find the cups or the festivals tend to be a little more consumer focused, I guess, than some of a lot of the conferences, which do have usually a consumer element, but it's usually more about, I don't know, you're walking around a showroom floor and they have machines that will pack joints for you, and obviously most people don't need that kind of stuff, so it's a little more dry.

Marge (00:29:25) - I think some of those expos and conferences, but the festivals, I think, is where it's at for people who just want to come and experience the cannabis community in their area or whatever region they're visiting. But, yeah. Do you know of any Canadian citizens or Canadians? Do you know any Canadian cities that are really becoming tourism hotspots? And I have a follow up question with that, because I would love to see some of these tourism hotspots move out of the big cities and into smaller communities because. Well, I'll reserve my thoughts on that and just ask you which write which cities are the hotspots right now?

Kelly (00:30:02) - Two, two spots, I think, that are doing cannabis tourism really well right now. One out in British Columbia, the BC Farmers Craft Co-op, for 420. They actually got the very first street permit for a cannabis festival. And I think it's some it was Mount Albert or Saint Albert. Forgive me if I don't have that correct, but they're the BC Craft Farmers Co-op and they just they had a wonderful festival.

Kelly (00:30:30) - People came in from all over there. They were really appreciated by the community, and they were supported by their region and by the politicians in the area. And so that's one place and another model that I'm I'm highly recommending, which is unique and different, but is really working, is this sovereign cannabis tourism model that just popped up in Saint Catharines. So I already told you, I really believe that Niagara Falls is doing cannabis tourism really, really well. And so Saint Catherine is sort of that sister city there. And they were, fine cannabis. They were opened up. They were an LP and a retail shop that actually left the legal realm to become sovereign. They're owned by, OCS, which is Oneida Cannabis Store, and they're now Ikes, which is indigenous cannabis store. So the store is owned by an indigenous, by an indigenous retailer's name is Troy Troy Anton. And he actually has the second store now, but the partners of fine are still involved with it. Eleanor and Josh, and they've opened up this sort of outdoor cannabis tourism space that's right on a lake.

Kelly (00:31:42) - So you can go into this retail shop, which is Ike's. Now you can tour the facility like a farm gate. You can purchase your cannabis there, which is indigenous cannabis. And then you go outside and you're experiencing comedians outside. They have markets outside, they have little festivals. They have on the lake spot there where you can go and sesh out with picnic tables. So their cannabis tourism models. Really, really cool. You've got all of those pieces and they're really there. They're sovereign cannabis. So it's a little bit different. And you can learn about the history and the land. And that's a model that I really, really like.

Marge (00:32:21) - Yeah, I love the sounds of that because it sounds like it's a place where you can go and purchase your cannabis and enjoy some entertainment, or just sesh outside with people if you want. And it sounds like it's fostering a lot of community, and which is maybe another reason why having this more enshrined in legislation would be helpful, because it would be nice to be able to move some of that indoors when it's not so nice out, because Canada, as we all know, is beautiful in the summertime.

Marge (00:32:46) - But then winter hits and it can be drab and dreary, and we still want to have those experiences. But it's not always fantastic if it's outdoors in January. Right? right?

Kelly (00:32:56) - Yeah. And we can have those kinds of experiences with infused dining, which I think is really it's on par with what you're doing here with Bite Me. And someone that's really doing that well is Thomas O'Neill, the butter baron of cannabis. And his brand is Aggressive Organics. And he does. He did a masquerade ball for Halloween this past fall and that was fantastic. It was infused five course meal. I think I'm probably getting that wrong, but he works with a chef. That and I always get this wrong too. His name is Tim and he's. And forgive me, you're going to help me. Is it a bearded chef or an a five star chef or a gold seal chef, a red seal? Help me think it might be red seal? That's what he is. Yeah. Yes, yes. As a Red seal, chef.

Kelly (00:33:43) - So this is who Thomas partners with. And they do high end infused dining. And that's. And they were doing it in Toronto. But they have like a band that'll come in. And I think they had somebody come and do face painting for masquerades. So they do the whole experience of it. And so I think that's something that we need to be fostering more as well. These infused dining experience. Don't leave intoxicated. Leave elevated.

Marge (00:34:09) - Yes, and I do love that too. And again, that's another reason why it needs to be enshrined in legislation. Because I know a lot of these amazing chefs are putting on really cool dinners that offer an entire experience around these meals, but they're kind of operating in a gray area, and it would be really nice if they could sort of come out of the shadows and not have to worry about. And I don't know if like, it's, I guess, quote unquote dangerous to sort of run these dinners because they're not technically legal, but they're just in this gray zone.

Marge (00:34:37) - And it'd be really nice to be not in the gray zone anymore. But it.

Kelly (00:34:40) - Would be. Yeah, it would be. Yeah.

Marge (00:34:42) - Now, how do we bring some of these, some of these amazing things to smaller communities? Because I feel like there's always people outside of big cities that feel like they're being underserved because, you know, I mean, we live close to Toronto. There's all kinds of things going on in Toronto, of course, because it's a city of several million people. But I don't always want to have to go to Toronto when I want to enjoy a cannabis event.

Kelly (00:35:09) - And isn't that what we're doing here in our area? It really is. And and we've found and I think that that's the way that we're doing it is the way that needs to be done. You find a band of individuals, like minded individuals, and you band together and you just start working together for events. What's, what's that fellow's name? The, infused dining fella, Josh or John that we know that, you know, he was going to put on an event at the end of last year.

Kelly (00:35:36) - Oh, Jack.

Marge (00:35:37) - Was that Jack? Jack?

Kelly (00:35:38) - Jack. Yes. Right. Yeah. And so. And he's. And he's such a pioneer. That's what he wants to do. He wants to do an invite and fuse dining events. So we support that. And you did the Frenchie movie and we support that. So you host events, you band together even in a small little way, and you just support each other by building the events together and doing. We've got an event coming up this weekend, a couple of events coming up this weekend where we, you know, you just call on whoever it is in your area that you know, is affiliated with cannabis. You band together and you just support each other, and you market the heck out of everything that you're doing to the cannabis space. And outside of that, we did an event earlier this year, Doobies for sleeping bags. Right? And we had people that were coming in. They were bringing in their sleeping bags for the vulnerable population, and we gave them doobies in exchange for that.

Kelly (00:36:28) - That made the paper. We were in the newspaper for that. So if you can get into the mainstream media any way that you can, then you're able to push your message out there and banding together. I think that those two things we forget sometimes when we're in this small knit cannabis community, that there are people outside of that that need to know about what we're doing in here. So really, really targeting that outside space to hear about these cannabis tourism experiences and opportunities. It's not about getting intoxicated. It's not about being all stoned up, man. It's about being elevated and experiencing these things together.

Marge (00:37:04) - Right? So if you're listening and you want to see something in your own community, don't be afraid to go out there and try and find some like minded people, because it is a great way to foster the community as well that cannabis is so well known for. And I think that's really important. And surprisingly, I find platforms like Facebook are pretty open to posting events. I've posted a couple of events there before, and even though they have pretty strict policies around cannabis, they didn't take them down.

Marge (00:37:30) - So that was a positive. So far, so good. Yeah. Now, how do you see the future of cannabis tourism evolving over the next 5 to 10 years? If you can put on your your future seeing glasses for a minute?

Kelly (00:37:45) - I, I definitely see it evolving. See, when cannabis legalized, we legalized and then Covid hit us. And so we've lost a lot of the people that we set out on this mission with. They just they couldn't keep going anymore. And a lot of the big giants in cannabis were hit. They fallen. A lot of people have lost money. A lot of people have folded. We're at the end of that now. The thing about cannabis tourism is that it was never tainted, because we never got it started, because we weren't able to because we were in the middle of a pandemic. So now we're out of that. We're a couple of years later, we're moving forward. People are, you know, they dusted themselves off. We're all left.

Kelly (00:38:21) - Whoever's left here, we're left over. And now it's time, because we see this as the real champion of of cannabis advocacy, of cannabis education, of cannabis business, of cannabis community. Because it never was hit. People don't have a bad idea of it. So if you can just sort of if you can connect with somebody through a cannabis experience, if you can bring a friend to a cannabis and comedy night and maybe they don't smoke at all, but maybe they have one little puff and now they're laughing their butts off. Because that comedian, you know what I mean? You just open them up a little bit, whatever way you can. Or like an elevated dining experiences. I've done elevated dining experiences before, and people have come to those that have never consumed because they were somebody's date and they've left so happy. And now I get it. Oh, I feel so good. So if you it is the best way that you can connect with a human that is stigmatized with cannabis just by giving them a wonderful cannabis experience.

Kelly (00:39:21) - So that's why it's so important that we foster cannabis tourism. It is the way that we can connect to the outside world and open up their hearts and their minds about, hey, cannabis isn't that bad, come play with me over here. Come do something exciting with me. There's this amazing, amazing group of individuals out of the Toronto area called The Dope Creative. And there are these incredible humans that have come together to visit cannabis and to visit, experiences, not just necessarily cannabis experiences, but any kinds of things, festivals and events. And they show up there and they help people with inclusion and disabilities and give them a safe space at these events. That's how you forward think. That's how you, you know, you bring somebody into an event that maybe they would be nervous about being in. But now you've got people like this that are actually working in a cannabis space that are like, come on in, you guys. It's safe in here. The water's fine. And they're the kind of individuals that you want to be at events with.

Kelly (00:40:20) - So it's happening. People are working for this mission. We just need to keep working together and get that word out there. And I know that this is the way that we're going to connect the world.

Marge (00:40:30) - I love that, and I've been very curious about how you feel about this question, but how do you feel that? What role do you think edibles will play in the cannabis tourism experience?

Kelly (00:40:42) - It's so important. And like I'll go back to again, there's absolutely no need for a human to ever be intoxicated on anything. That's just it's toxins to our body. It's harming our body. So if we think of of consuming cannabis in an elevated way, like I'm not just talking about what THC, CBD cannabis and, and what we're eating or cannabis, it elevates us. I'm mixing up my words here, but you can get to all the different cannabinoids you can consume, and they're entering your body in a different way and in giving us a different feeling. And that feeling doesn't necessarily need to be one of intoxication when we're consuming it by eating it, our livers breaking it down.

Kelly (00:41:23) - It's not coming in by our blood berry or by our oxygen. It's coming by our our liver and it's breaking down. So it's taken a little while. It's our body's receiving it in a different way, and we're feeling it in a way that is so much clearer and so much so, so much more important when we're looking for that long term feeling. Right? So if we're looking for that elevation for a long term. So if we're going to experience something and like a wedding, for example, and we're eating our our dinner and we're having a little salad and our dressing is, you know, enhanced with some CBD and that's, you know, giving us that experience. Then by the end of that meal, we're eating our, our souffle that's a little bit infused with THC. Now we've got all those cannabinoids by the end of that six course meal or whatever, we're sitting there for a few hours. Imagine how good we're feeling by the time we live. That's what we want. That's what we want.

Kelly (00:42:18) - That's the feeling that we want people to feel. So edibles are so important because if we can offer that alongside regular dining, if we can have an option of infused pizza, if we can have an option of an infused ice cream cone wherever we're going, you're giving that feeling of elevation and wellness to the general population, as opposed to somebody that I'm smoking this joint, and maybe they don't want to smell like weed, or maybe they don't want the combustion, and maybe they don't want that in their lungs. Maybe they just want to use edibles. We need to talk about cannabis beverages in that sense as well. Mocktails, right? We don't necessarily need to be infusing our wine, right? We can have wine that's infused with cannabis. We don't need to be infusing it with alcohol. That's an option too. And that's going alongside of our edibles that are infused. So it's a big thing. It's that's why it's so important what you're doing with Bite Me because people can connect that way. The food there is that stigma with the smoking.

Kelly (00:43:21) - I know that there's a lot of and I don't want to encourage teens to smoke. That's a completely other conversation or consume can. I don't want to encourage teens to necessarily consume cannabis, but what I'm saying is that they're going to consume something. Right now, most teenagers are going to consume something for intoxication right now anyway. Let's get them to choose a little gummy, a five milligram gummy over a case of beer. And if we're talking about the young people, they don't want to necessarily be drunk anymore. They want to go to bars and clubs, and they want to have their infused beverages as opposed to having hangovers the next day. They want to look good on their TikTok videos. They don't want to, you know, they want to have that. So let's encourage that edible field that's encourage that cannabis beverage field for the young generation. As they're moving forward, they're going to choose it anyway. They're going to choose that health and wellness over, over the intoxication and the alcohol. Anyway. That's why edibles are so important.

Marge (00:44:20) - Yeah, and I totally agree with all of that. And I also feel like for people who are new to cannabis, there is that attraction to infuse dining or infused foods because it feels safer and people understand food more than they might understand. You know, bongs or dab rigs or finding the right, the right weed or all those things. It's less intimidating for people who are new to cannabis. And there's so many people coming to cannabis now who before might have, you know, been suspicious of it because it's legal now. And, you know, they're like, well, if it's legal, then it can't be that bad. And so suddenly they're more interested in trying out that gummy at the local dispensary and hopefully eventually being able to try something out at an infused dinner or at a at a dispensary that's able to offer, you know, infused foods that are a little more maybe made in front of them instead of pre-packaged. Hopefully one day I would love to see that. So maybe I'm a little bit biased because obviously I have a whole show about edibles and it's because I love them so much.

Marge (00:45:20) - But yeah, that I would love to see.

Kelly (00:45:22) - And that's the thing. And let's also say that all of that should come with education as well. I always like to say that because you can take that five milligram gummy, and if you've never had any cannabis consumption before, you can experience that in a completely different way than someone that has had cannabis in their system before. So when we're talking about consuming by edibles, than we do know it lasts longer and it can hit us stronger. So that's also something to be careful with when we are having people that come and try cannabis tourism experiences for the first time. Education is so important in that.

Marge (00:45:56) - Piece, 100% agree because we all know somebody or we've done it ourselves and we've consumed too much cannabis via ingestion, and it's not a fun time and we don't want to scare people away. We want to encourage them to come back to whatever, you know, favorite dispenser they have or whatever the case, we don't want to scare them away, essentially.

Kelly (00:46:15) - So and they do education. And that's the sad thing.

Marge (00:46:18) - Yeah. So it is super important. But fortunately I found like when I used to work in the dispensary, a lot of people who are new to cannabis came in with really good questions, and a lot of them were older folks as well, because they were the people who are sort of coming from, you know, prohibition and propaganda. And then they're like, well, it's legal now. Maybe I might check this out. I've heard, you know, my neighbor talking about it or something. And they usually had the best questions. And they were also willing to listen, which is pretty important because there was a number of customers that I might interact with that have been consuming for a long time. And then they also thought that they knew everything about cannabis, even though I think you and I could both agree, they are learning so much more about cannabis now that it's legal here. And it's legalization is growing around the world. Those studies they're doing on it now that they couldn't do during prohibition.

Marge (00:47:09) - We're learning so much more about this plan and there's so much more to uncover. I'm sure as as time goes on. Yeah, yeah, so.

Kelly (00:47:15) - Much with that. And with the laws changing in the US of cannabis for cannabis, then now more and more will be studied down there and so we'll be able to get more research and so even more is going to be discovered, I can't imagine. I had a conversation with someone recently and they said, cannabis is not a panacea. And I said, yes, cannabis is a panacea. That means that panacea. For those that don't know, panacea is a cure all for everything. And they were saying, that can't be the true. And I said, well, maybe not right now. Maybe cannabis isn't right now, but imagine all the research that's going to be allowed to be done now that the classification is being changed in the US. Now that things are being researched here and globally. Wow. Yes, it will be.

Marge (00:47:59) - And in some respects it is a panacea because I do feel that cannabis isn't necessarily for everyone.

Marge (00:48:05) - But when you consider that cannabis as a topical, which doesn't get you high, can can help so many people or even eating, you know, hemp seeds, it's a nutrition powerhouse or hemp oil or like all these things that are around the cannabis plant. Maybe consuming it in certain ways isn't for everybody, but there is a way that almost everybody can benefit from the plant. So it's in a lot of ways it is a panacea. So. So that person was wrong.

Kelly (00:48:30) - Bravo to that.

Marge (00:48:31) - Yeah. Now do you have any memorable stories or from or feedback from tourists who've experienced cannabis tourism in in Canada specifically?

Kelly (00:48:43) - That experience I had, fella that had come up for, an expo. I won't state what the expo was, that they had traveled all the way from the US, from a place that it was not legal, but they had found out that we were having a cannabis expo up here and they thought, oh my gosh, I need to come look like a Mecca. Oh, I'm coming to Canada for this expo.

Kelly (00:49:07) - Okay, so this and we'll go back to unfortunately, the floor of it. This person came up to me drunk at the cannabis expo and. Right. And there was they were saying to me, you know, like I, I, I expected that I was coming here and I was going to be able to, experience this and experience this. They did they were very happy to meet the cannabis influencers. They, you know, they like to take their pictures with that. They heard some speeches that they liked, but, they came specifically for that cannabis consumption experience, let's just say like like they wanted to come to the expo. Yeah. I'm here. I mean, where's the weed, weird guys? So they they. Yes, they had the a wonderful time. They traveled specifically for that. They were a little let down in the end. And I. I've stayed in touch with them and I've promised them one day I will do a better expo, and you can come back to Canada and experience it better.

Kelly (00:50:03) - And I think that we'll be able to offer that in another couple of years, and that when the travelers are coming, because they are, they are coming like we're seeing them come. I think that we'll, we'll be able to give them a little bit, a little bit better off.

Marge (00:50:15) - I think so, and it's interesting too, because, I mean, even though we don't have like the consumption spaces necessarily, or a lot of the tourism pieces, I was in Germany for a couple of months recently and they just legalized, but they don't have all the infrastructure that we have here. And you don't realize that until you're like, oh, well, where do I get weed now? Like it's legal, but I can't just go buy it. And we are really fortunate that here we have, you know, dispensaries available everywhere, and there's so many options online and offline and all these things. And that tourism piece would just be the the icing on the cake. I think that really would make Canada the ultimate cannabis destination.

Marge (00:50:55) - And we've got a bit of a head start to so so I think if the powers that be were smart, they would take all the recommendations from the KTA and implement them all and it would be magical. I think it would just be magical. So yeah.

Kelly (00:51:10) - We can we have experience. We have a fellow that's a member. He's got a dog sled brand. So he is dog sled excursion that you can go to a hut, you consume your cannabis, you take a dog sled. So there's experiences from coast to coast. We've got farm gate on the East Coast, like there's things you can do in Canada that people are creating all the time that align with cannabis, and it's so incredible to watch everybody pop up and do all of these. Imagine when these regulations get changed, what people are going to come up with, you know, come and stay in my house and experience this high BNB will blow up. There'll be another high BNB, Airbnb high or whatever. And so we'll see. Everybody will be experiencing that.

Kelly (00:51:51) - Once all of this happens. It's it's it's going to be that place that people will travel to for sure.

Marge (00:51:56) - I think so too, because Canada is a great place to be anyway. But I want to be mindful of your time. Kelly. So we're going to wrap things up here. But before we go, do you have any fun things coming up yourself planned?

Kelly (00:52:10) - Oh, I'm Well, I'm not sure when this podcast will air, but I'll talk about that. We're doing our Cannabis Gibbs Back event on the weekend for pride. it's a really incredible event. And the fact that everybody's pulled together for cannabis tourism and to give back for pride, it's all in support of the YMCA sprout House, which is a transitional home for queer youth youth that may have been kicked out of their home for being themselves or even kicked out of their country in some cases. So every year we gather for our annual giveback, and the the one that we're doing is partnering. I'm so excited about this with Canna Drag.

Kelly (00:52:49) - So when Nisha Reinsdorf out of Alberta, she's also a member of the KTA. She has pioneered this brand called Canna Drag. And even people that are affiliated with, like RuPaul are involved with what they're doing out in Alberta. And they put on these shows and they have legal and legacy brands that come in and support the shows. It's all just really cannabis friendly. They consume in the space that they're there. They have ability to to do that because it's a private space. And so she's bringing her brand of Canada to Ontario for the first time. And all of us have got together. You're involved. You're going to come to the show, we've got aggressive organics that's coming, and these incredible drag queens are going to come and perform. And al-Hashimi, who is a recording artist and we're raising money for Sprott House, Karim Asad, who is a cannabis lawyer and activist, is coming. She's also involved. We've got some vendors and we're just collecting money for Sprott House, all in the name of cannabis tourism, all in the name of pride and the queer month and, June.

Kelly (00:53:53) - So it's it's a beautiful cannabis gives back event for sure.

Marge (00:53:56) - Yes. I'm definitely looking forward to that. I'll be at that event. Unfortunately, this episode will be coming out afterwards, but hopefully I can get some pictures. I can put them up in the show notes for this episode too, just to give people a taste of what that whole event looked like, because I think it's going to be a really good time.

Kelly (00:54:13) - Yeah, thanks for being involved.

Marge (00:54:15) - Yeah. And, Kelly, I just want to say thank you for your time today and talking about cannabis tourism in Canada. And, I'm wishing you all the best as you push the the mandate of the KTA forward. I am rooting for you.

Kelly (00:54:31) - Thank you. Thank you for supporting our mission. It's really important. It's people like you that help us move forward with that. And we'll keep doing more cannabis tourism projects with you.

Marge (00:54:40) - Well, what do you think? Would you come to Canada to visit for cannabis tourism if some of these new changes were implemented? I would love to hear your thoughts.

Marge (00:54:51) - And is there a place where you would love to visit to be able to smoke cannabis freely? For cannabis tourism in particular, let me know. You can always shoot me a text with the fan mail option. Email me. There's all kinds of ways to get Ahold of me. Don't be shy. I would love to share what you think on an upcoming episode. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider sharing it with somebody that you care about and consider using the products and services on the Marge Recommends page because they like to travel too. I'm your host, Marj, and until next time, friends, stay high.